h-18 mast raising system
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Posted: Jul 14, 2009 - 11:51 AM
I have built an extension to my mast holder for my h-18 trailer and it should work fine except for one part. i have noticed that most people use bungies hooked to trap lines to stablilize the mast. i am not comfortable with little bungies holding a $900 mast. could i use 1/4'' rope instead. or maybe a combo of each? -
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Posted: Jul 14, 2009 - 12:28 PM
i agree that bungee's are the wrong item to use for mast stabilization... PERIOD! it makes no sense...
Use LINE!!! -
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Posted: Jul 14, 2009 - 01:42 PM
On our SC20 we would run the a line through the jib blocks, under the front beam and up to a trap line on each side to stabilize while winching the mast up. That way we could use the jib blocks to tighten or loosen the stablizer while raising, should be able to do the same on the H18. Then once up would tie one of the trap lines to the bar the winch was bolted to. That way we could loosen the winch and connect the front shroud.
I have always raised my H18 mast by hand. I agree no bungee in this application, $900 mast plus people in the area is not a good application for a bungee.
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Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
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Posted: Jul 14, 2009 - 09:35 PM
I'm setting up the boat a little different each time as I'm still a newbie.
For the mast I'm now using the straps that I hold the boat to the trailer. When I trailer I have 4 straps, 2 on each hull by the crossbars. I use the front straps (leaving the rears holding the boat to the trailer so things don't move around) and wrap around the hull in front of the front crossbar and connect to the trap lines. Once I tighten the straps I raise the mast by hand until there is enough of an angle that I can have someone winch it the rest of the way.
I would assume rope would work just as well. -
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Posted: Jul 15, 2009 - 06:41 AM
If this is a Hobie 18 and you have 2 people available, why do you need to winch it at all? Two should be able to raise the mast. A trick that helps is tie an extra length of line to the main halyard about 20 feet long and make sure that the other end is tied secure at the mast base. One person on the boat the other starts walking the mast up as far as he can while the person on the boats holds the mast go forward grab the halyard with the extra line and pull as the person on the boat starts lifting. I use this method on my nacra 6.0. I agree that both people have to be in shape to do this, and if one or both are not, do not try. -
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Posted: Jul 15, 2009 - 08:27 AM
Make sure the boat is strapped to the trailer when you raise the mast, especially if you use a winch or are connecting a rope from the mast to the trailer. The force against the trailer can cause the boat to move and that is a VERY bad thing. Made that mistake once and will never do it again.
When raising a H18 mast my wife typically picks up the top and walks the mast up as she walks towards the boat. I then stand on the tramp and take it up the rest of the way by hand. She then walks around to the front and connects the forestay. I do make sure she is out from under the mast before I raise it the rest of the way incase something slips.
For our SC20 we had a pole on the trailer in front of the front cross bar with a pulley on top. We would run the winch rope over that pulley before connecting to the mast. That way the rope was pulling up on the mast at first so it could be raised from flat on the trap all the way up by the winch alone. We also found with 2-3 guys we could raise it by hand from on the tramp.
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Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
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Posted: Jul 15, 2009 - 09:18 AM
I think that i am going to go with the tie down strap idea. I have a patience problem when setting up a boat and i dont feel like waiting 30min for the rest of the crew to appear. I also dont like depending on new people to connect things correctly. I have had a mast fall from operator error.
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FYC, Nacra 5.2 "Chris's Flyer" & Nacra Playcat & Farrier Tramp
Previously owned: Trac 14, H14, H16, H18, N5.0, G-cat 5.0
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Posted: Jul 15, 2009 - 09:45 AM
in my early h18 days, I used to have a helper jump on the tramp with me and help step it... but i couldnt sail without help... so i got an E-Z mast system from murrays.com.
it was a HUGE PITA to set up.. but once set up.. i could step my mast solo... took about 15 minutes to set up for self steppin' (once the adjustments were set) -
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Posted: Jul 15, 2009 - 08:35 PM
I just tried my mast raising system but i bent my trailers mast holder thingy. I figure that the mast laying flat on the boat put too much stress on it...but i will prevail!
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FYC, Nacra 5.2 "Chris's Flyer" & Nacra Playcat & Farrier Tramp
Previously owned: Trac 14, H14, H16, H18, N5.0, G-cat 5.0
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Posted: Jul 15, 2009 - 10:09 PM
here is something I found helpful for my old H18SX with mamma bob. Go to the your favorite home improvement store and but 3 8ft sections of pvc pipe and a bolt and nut big enought to go through all three pieces of pipe. tie some spare line to the bottoms of the legs so they can only spread out so far and drill holes about a foot from the top to run the bolt
It makes a giant tripod to rest the mast on before you raise it and helps alot.
I also had a diagonal piece of 2" square stock welded into the upright the winch is mounted on. I had a guy drive by and weld it up for me for under $100 including welding over the area on the upright that split. Well worth it!!!
BUT once again, Andrew is right, and EZ step is great once you figure out the trick to rigging it although I would still go with reenforcing the upright!
If you are overtensioning your rig, it may be because of the guide lines hooked to the trap wires. If the straps slide forward on the hulls, they will over tension and may even break the metal brackets
The EZ step works great if everything is in the right place elsewise, it can be a disaster. Remember, if the rig gets tight, something is wrong!
THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS TO KEEP THE BOAT FIRMLY STRAPPED TO THE TRAILER UNTIL AFTER THE MAST IS RAISED!!! IF NOT THE MAST CAN FORCE THE BOAT FORWARD AND THEN YOU ARE IN BIG TROUBLE -
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Posted: Jul 16, 2009 - 09:20 AM
I defintily need reinforcement for the mast support. I have a welder but i an not sure about welding galvanized metal. Once you remove the galvanization the metal will rust. I have considered bolting a narrow 2x4 in the channel. The channel's open end faces the boat. i figure that if a board was bolted in there then the metal would be under tension and the wood would be under compression forces. (I am a mechanical engineering student).
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FYC, Nacra 5.2 "Chris's Flyer" & Nacra Playcat & Farrier Tramp
Previously owned: Trac 14, H14, H16, H18, N5.0, G-cat 5.0
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Posted: Jul 16, 2009 - 09:21 AM
also, how in the heck do you get the mastbase hooked up by yourself?...
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FYC, Nacra 5.2 "Chris's Flyer" & Nacra Playcat & Farrier Tramp
Previously owned: Trac 14, H14, H16, H18, N5.0, G-cat 5.0
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Posted: Jul 16, 2009 - 11:23 AM
I used to use keep a milk crate on my rear beam for the mast. i bungeed the crate to the tramp lacing and then the mast to the milk crate.
the milk crate held the mast up (about 2') and that was enough for me to walk forward and put the mast base pin in.
Word of caution - NEVER, EVER, EVER step the mast over things you care about (car, girlfriend, dog, girlfriend, etc) untill you MASTER this process (and then still never have a person under the mast). Even for "catching" the mast.
the proper way is to lower the mast 90% of the way and have the person then step in to help. I broke a mast hing on my h18 ( the wind blew my mast slightly off center while lowering and cracked the hing plate) while my new gf was "helping". it missed hitting her (falling almost the entire way) by inches. It would have killed her!
I do put my cat on the trailer transom towards the car.. so i do step my mast over my car.. but its just a car.. and i have never dropped a mast (exept as explained below)
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Posted: Jul 16, 2009 - 05:47 PM
go to Technical Help Gallery and check out my album "build your own solo mast step setup", it might give you a few ideas. The top of your ginpole should be at least 3 feet higher than your mast base for the principal of leverage to work. You might also want to raise your mast a little so as not to dead lift it from horizontal, I use an extending painters stick extended maximum and prop it under mast so as relieve some of the stress on the mast holder. And yes, I use bungees but I use a specific type, super strong and I check them regularly. I understand your nervousness with such a heavy mast on the H18, I was nervous when I 1st used mine and doubled up on the bungees, now I just use one on each trap wire, each one to his own. Think of it in terms of force, you want to lift the mast using the force of pull but this force is at an angle, because the mast is attached to the mast step using the link pin, this becomes a pivot point, the force of gravity will act against the pull, generating sway If the tension on each trap wire is equal, the force of sway has been neutralized, leaving only the force of gravity to overcome, and a mechanical winch does this quite commendably, lifting my mast effortlessly, to seat it neatly into the mast step, allowing me to connect forestay. I then finish rigging my boat and launch out into the water to do further battle with.......... the forces of nature:-
force of wind + angle of wind over my sail = warp speed
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TurboHobo
H14T
H16
P18
G-Cat 5.0
P16
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Posted: Jul 17, 2009 - 09:28 AM
I based mine entirely off of yours. infact i have pictures posted. but i have decided that as nice as it is that i dont really want a mast hoist. with the trap wires strapped to the ends of the dolphin striker the mast is very stable. now i just prop it up with a 2x4 and walk it up. i also point the trailer down hill so that after it is up i can walk around and hook the forestay up solo. i also calculated the stress on my chain(you used cable) since it snapped the first time around. turns out i pulled nearly 800lbs. on the chain. about 750lbs pushes down on the column and 165lb on tension on the winch rope. my chain has a pretty steep angle...but for people who are considering this for their boat the numbers should give you a idea of materials to buy.
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FYC, Nacra 5.2 "Chris's Flyer" & Nacra Playcat & Farrier Tramp
Previously owned: Trac 14, H14, H16, H18, N5.0, G-cat 5.0
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Posted: Jul 17, 2009 - 01:49 PM
Hey, that's pretty cool, glad to see that that album has helped someone out, thanks man.
When I first built my system I was using some kind of nyon rope that was already on the winch, it too snapped, and you know the what it's like to watch the mast bounce off the back crossbar
anyway, I switched to using a strap rated at 3000 lbs breakstrain, I figured that if the pull on the mast is more than that ......
I was also fortunate that my forward mastholder was built in such a way as to sustain that kind of stress.
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TurboHobo
H14T
H16
P18
G-Cat 5.0
P16
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Posted: Jul 18, 2009 - 07:18 PM
I've attached a photo of the mast box I built to help raise the mast on my F18. I had similar set-ups for my 6.0 and H18. It sits on the rear crossbar and raises the mast up. With the base connected, it puts the mast at a good enough height to lift using the winch on the trailer. My 115blb ex-GF could raise the mast using the winch with no problem while I steadied it on the tramp. Hope this gives you some insight.
T
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Posted: Jul 21, 2009 - 07:09 PM
I have been trying to figure out how step my mast solo with my Nacra 5.2. I have looked at the mast steppers available and I still haven't figured out if they will work for me (you have to twist the mast 90 degrees at about 3 feet off of the rear beam).
My thought was to hook a block up to the bridle wires and a swivel cleat to the mast about 5 feet from the foot. I would then attach a rope to the forestay and through the block on the bridles and back through the swivel cleat. Then I would walk the mast up to the rear beam, cleat it off, get on the tramp and walk it the rest of the way (keeping the forestay line taught or cleated) and cleat it off when it is vertical. This would then give me a chance to go to the forestay and shackle it up. Do you think this has any chance of working or will the forces then the mast is at a low angle just be too much for the bridle wires? I can lift the mast pretty easily it's just keeping it stable while I walk it up and holding it vertical are problems.
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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Jul 21, 2009 - 08:34 PM
I step my mast with the help of my 10 year old daughter, and it's heavier than I thought it would be when I bought the cat. I drilled a hole on the mast step so I can put a pin in it to keep the mast from coming out of the base while I try to raise it (info I learned from this forum).
I also have to guy-wires that go to the front of the cross beam so the mast won't move side-to-side. I have an eye bolt on the very end of each side of the front cross beam where those guy-wires go from the top of the mast to each eye bolt.
On the headstay I tie a line which runs to a block on the front of the trailer and then back to the jib block where I can cleat it off quickly if needed.
Once I have the pin in, and the guy-wires (some simple line) tightened up to keep the mast from falling sideways, I start raising the mast up and pull on the line that is tied to the headstay to keep taking slack out. Sometimes I get my daughter to pull on that line while I raise the mast.
The system works well, but I am going to build a gin pole like I used on an old trailer sailor I had. Nothing, in my opinion, works better than a gin pole for single stepping a mast.
Here is a very simple and effective design you might find useful:
http://slowflight.net/upgrades/tips-GinPole.html
I used a version of this to step the mast on an O'Day 240, and that mast was from their 27' boat. Single person, never any issues and I must have done it 25 or more times.
I'll be building another one for my SolCat 18.
Dan
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Posted: Jul 21, 2009 - 10:41 PM
Nice link, thanks, I assume this isn't too different than the one on Murray's.
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