So far this forum has been amazing, everyone has been so helpful. I have a couple of newbie questions and thought I'd just consolidate into one thread. I bought my Prindle while living in Sothern California and did enjoy sailing the pacific coast line. Since moving to Oregon I hadn't taken it out until last weekend and was unsure how sailing on a lake would be in a cat. Now that I've done it I am hooked again and look forward to spending many hours on the local lakes enjoying this great sport. It does seem that wind direction is more of an issue on a lake but, and please correct me if I'm wrong, the wind doesn't seem that it gets as gusty (in general)? Okay on to my questions when I bought it I am finding the fellow I bought it from didn't know what he was doing so I'm hoping to clear some things up. First off the basics of storing the mast. I leave my riggings on my mast when I pull it down (except the side stays I coil and leave on the tramp). I then store the mast on it's side across the trailer like I've seen so many in photos. I guess my question is will my riggings wear any faster being left on the mast? And am I in danger of damaging my mast storing it on its side instead of like an egg?
My jib has a cable that runs the length (mast to forestays) also there are grommets on all three corners as well. When I was showed to rig this the fellow said to rig the shackle thru the eye and also the grommet. I'm now thinking of the strain that is put on the jib that seems intended for that cable and think maybe I shouldn't use these grommets. What would be the right way to do this?
Finally when I took it to a cat shop in SoCal a couple of years after I bought it they were quite helpful and sold me all new riggings (accept the halyards I opted not to get at that time) and my fore stay is long enough to shackle directly into the ... long bit of metal with several holes (like is used for the side stays) .... and no longer uses a turnbuckle. They said this is the new way of rigging the Prindle and I just wanted to clarify this since I haven't seen any others rigged this way.
New to forum and my '78 Prindle 16
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Posted: Jul 15, 2009 - 02:08 PM
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Posted: Jul 15, 2009 - 02:47 PM
I have always left my riggings on the mast, but I do tie them to the mast to reduce movement.
As for storing the mast, I always lay it on its side with a support in the middle. I try to alternate the side...if I remember. I haven't had any issues by doing this.
I'm having trouble picturing you last comment about the fore stay connection. Can you post a picture?
Just in case you don't have this...here's a website with the Prindle manual.
http://www.performancecat.com/prindle/
P16 1976
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Posted: Jul 15, 2009 - 03:23 PM
I just took some pictures of my jib as well as that bit of rigging that I don't know the name of. I can't however figure out how to get these pictures onto the thread. The bit I'm having trouble describing is like a bit of half inch u chanel with holes machined thru it the full length sized for a shackel to hook too....I don't know if that helps at all. -
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Posted: Jul 15, 2009 - 03:54 PM
I leave all the rigging attached to my P18 in the sailing season but When I winterize I remove it all. I hang my under horizontally under a lean to section of my garage. It is to long and sticks out a bit on both ends but most of it is covered. I coil up all the other rigging and store inside the garage and remove the tramp.
I just went sailing with a guy who had a Prindle 16 that had been rigged and left for like that 7 years. It looked awful and his tramp side lacing started shredding when he started sailing. I would have been afraid of his standing rigging but I wasn't going on it and didn't look to close.
Can't help ya on the Jib thing mine is a Zippered Jib and doesn't have any grommets like your speaking of but mine is also 1982 P18.
I'm still using a turnbuckle but I haven't bought new standing rigging for it yet. I think I'd like what you are describing better I think the Turnbuckle is a PAIN.
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Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
1982 Prindle 18
1986 Hobie 17
1982 Prindle 16
1980 Prindle 16(mostly)
1976 Prindle 16(mostly)
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook.
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Posted: Jul 15, 2009 - 04:07 PM
I found out the bit I'm trying to describe is called an adjuster and takes the place of the turnbuckle so that question is settled :)
Quarath I too have learned that I need to protect my tramp from the elements. I just ordered a new one from SLO and should have it on by this weekend. I also do strap my riggings to my mast so they don't flop around in the breeze, but sounds like hanging under the eves for the winter will be a good idea.
Thank you guy's again for your input :) -
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Posted: Jul 15, 2009 - 04:38 PM
Please update your profile(s) so we know where you are ...
climate is a factor in the wear of our beloved cats. many have gelcoat and this is mildly UV sensitive. tramps, blocks, lines, etc are also UV sensitive and attempts to minimize exposure will protect and extend the life of sed equipment (can you tell my family has lawyers in it)?
Here in the Tampa area, its like AFRICA.. so i tarp my tramp and spinnaker snuffer bag (first one lasted less than a year).
I spray 303 protectant on my hulls and some of my blocks (it claims to be like 40spf)
As per the jib... I recently tired to help someone rig their p16 (with turnbuckle) and i had NO CLUE! But i am certain your jib should not be attached only at the 3 grommets. there has to be a jib halyard or your forestay there to take the brunt of the forces sailing will create. if the jib takes all those forces without a cable... i can almost promise you it will ripppppppp
read the manual... go to the stores, bring a pen and paper, ask questions, go to the lake and find other p16 owners... ask everywhere... :)
edited by: andrewscott, Jul 15, 2009 - 04:39 PM -
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Posted: Jul 15, 2009 - 09:20 PM
Oh my bad, I'm here in southern Oregon. I called West Marine today and got some really good information from their rigging department. To include the answer to my question about my forestay and bridal attachments. As well as the answer to my question about how to rig my jib...we think. Basically I was hooking up the cable that is part of my jib but also using the grommets (like the fellow showed me) but this was putting the load on my jib. I now know that the grommets are more to keep the jib in the right position on the cable and the cable should hold the load.
Also to clarify my jib is rigged thru a halyard that can be used to raise and lower the jib. I was concerned about how I was rigging the jib to this line (and yes I was unclear on how I worded that point). So my mast is held in place by my side stays and the forestay. My jib is raised with the jib halyard and I now think I know that it is to be attached at the cable thimbles only and not the grommet. I wish I could figure out how to get pictures up on this site so I could show what I'm trying to say :) And I haven't seen any cats on the water around here that is partly why I didn't try sailing for the years since moving and I don't know of any sailing shops in the area either. This forum has been such a wealth of knowledge I can't thank everyone enough!!
:edit:
So I got two photo's of my jib on my profile...that's a start :)
edited by: knoll0351, Jul 15, 2009 - 06:31 PM -
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Posted: Jul 15, 2009 - 11:19 PM
When I rescued my Prindle 16 from 18 years of neglect, I had no manual. Thanks to the web, I found the manual on line. That took care of most of my problems until I got to the jib. Horror story there. I did some asking around and it was recommended to me to print the Jib Sail section from the Hobie 16 manual. I found this very helpful. It is not an exact match but close enough to figure things out.
Our older Prindles do not have a pocket with zipper for the jib as the newer models do. I use a quick connect on the jib tack (front bottom of the jib) and attach it to a shackle that I have attached to the forestay adjuster. The jib tends to flap in the breeze so the quicker you can connect, the better. The jib halyard attaches to the head of the jib, runs up through the jib halyard block on the forestay, through the cheek block attached to the base of the mast, up through the jib downhaul block on the end of the jib halyard and then cleated off on the mast. Lastly, I have my jib clew blocks attached to another quick connect which then attaches to the jib clew plate (bottom back) of the jib. All of these things are explained and diagramed on the Hobie 16 jib sail instructions.
If you haven't been to the Murrays.com web site, you will find all of the equipment that you will ever need along with many diagrams and suggestions. The trapeze questions that you have been asking are pictured on page 49 of their catalog or try this link: (http://www.murrays.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=01-1120&Category_Code=C-TRA&Store_Code=MS) or this one from their catalog: (http://www.murrays.com/archive/49.pdf). If you really get stuck, Stan at Murrays is an expert with the older Prindles.
As for storage, I am in Michigan. I pull all of the standing and running rigging off along with the trampoline and store it indoors. This should add years of additional sailing to this equipment.
Images - the only way that I found to get them posted is to load your pics onto Photobucket (simple to set up an account). Once there, right click on the image, select the Direct Link option and copy that URL. On the beachcats web site, select the Image button and paste your URL address in between the placeholders from the image button.
J. Mueller
Prindle 16 ('75) -
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Posted: Jul 16, 2009 - 09:22 AM
i would be leery of any rigging from WestMarine (purchase and or advice) ... they are not know to knowledgeable in catamarans, and i have heard MANY stories of improperly made stays from them. -
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Posted: Jul 16, 2009 - 10:20 AM
The older Prindles are rigged exactly like a H-16. The forestay only holds the mast up. The real forestay is in the luff of the jib and when you attach halyard to head of jib and raise (using the block that is integral with the halyard to give the final pull a 3:1), the original forestay goes limp against the sail. The '79 and later P-16's use the upper & lower forestay with 2 part halyard (with sister clips) with an S hook that hooks into a ring on upper forestay. This requires the ZIPPER luff jib and the halyard lies inside the closed zipper. You unhook half the halyard upon raising by disconnecting sister clips. Only this system uses a TURNBUCKLE to tighten the forestay (and there is no chainplate with holes). Back to your system, the grommet on sail is tied to thimbles at tack & head with a short line. -
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Posted: Jul 16, 2009 - 11:10 AM
or shackles??? -
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Posted: Jul 16, 2009 - 01:03 PM
Good to know, I'll avoid West Marine.
So when my jib is raised the cable of the jib will hold the weight of the mast and the "forestay" will become slack. So ... it sounds as though the "forestay" is there just to keep the mast from falling until the jib is up. So I was almost correct in my assumption that the grommets are to tie the sail to the thimbles, or shackles so that it doesn't slide up and down on the ... forestay ...?
Thank you again for the help I don't know what I'd do without this forum. ...any suggestions on where I should buy riggings and such? I think I do need new halyards and I think that since the lines are all probably original I should replace every bit of ... double braid? (rope). -
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Posted: Jul 16, 2009 - 01:09 PM
That's correct.
The jib will bear all the weight. With experience you'll know how to set your jib, depending on the wind, by the slack in the forestay.
