Looking to purchase a beach cat!! Need help!!
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Posted: Aug 28, 2009 - 10:22 AM
Would like to get back into sailing beachcats. Looking for a boat I can single hand and take a friend out. Currently looking at Hobie 17sport, FX one. Any others I should consider and what people think about these. I sailed a friends A-cat and loved it, but it is a single-hander. Something like this that could be sailed with a passenger once in a while. I have a 1 1/2 yr old son that I will get into sailing when he is old enough. I'd appreciate any help in narrowing down my options. I don't intend to race. Just sail on Lake Ponchartrain in New Orleans. -
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Posted: Aug 28, 2009 - 11:23 AM
how much are you looking to invest? you can pick up a hobie 17 for dirt cheap but an fx-1 or A cat would run a decent price. a hobie 16 is not to much boat either. some smaller nacras would be good to. -
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Posted: Aug 28, 2009 - 11:31 AM
If you plan on mostly solo sailing on Lake Ponchartrain I would recommend a boat designed for single handing, like the H17 or even a H16. I would not recommend anything bigger if solo is your primary objective. If it is primarily with crew and sometimes solo then you have a lot more options for boats. Also sailing solo versus setting up the boat solo are two different things. I love sailing my H18 solo in the right conditions, but have never tried to step the mast solo.
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Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
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Posted: Aug 28, 2009 - 11:50 AM
I just got back into sailing after many years and purchased a Nacra 5.2 (many similarities to the FXone). Without the jib it is easy to single hand, very fast and forgiving compared to my old H16). The daggerboards are a bit of a headache though.
I would look at some of the other Nacras without daggerboards as a first choice such as the 5.0 (500) and 5.7 (570). They are comparable to the boats you mention without daggerboards and they are boomless. You can pick an older one up relatively inexpensively and still get all the parts for them because they are still in production.
If you don't mind the daggerboards the 5.2 and 5.5 are viable options and can be had for even less money. Everything is still in production for these boats except the hulls themeselves and maybe the mast (crossbeams are interchangeable with the 5.7 I believe).
Dave
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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Aug 28, 2009 - 12:20 PM
i think the Prindle and Hobie 16's sound like a good fit but there are many others as well.
In MOST cases, you could expect to be able to recoup your original purchase cost for a used cat in a year or 2 if you decided to change out platforms... (assuming you don't trash the cat). this doesn't include upgrades, new sails, or manhours.. -
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Posted: Aug 28, 2009 - 01:55 PM
Andrew makes a great point.
No need to buy the boat today that you 2 year old will be able to sail 5 or 7 years from now. Find a good boat to get you back into the sport and then sell it for about what you paid for it if you need something different a few years down the road.
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Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
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Posted: Aug 28, 2009 - 02:58 PM
Agreed, I had my first boat for two years and sold it for $1000 more than I paid for it. I sold it in three weeks to the fifth looker. -
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Posted: Aug 28, 2009 - 03:19 PM
I'll be solo sailing it most of the time. I'll only be sailing the boat once or twice a month, so probably don't want to invest a lot of money into the boat. Ease of setting up and sailing is important. Like Dave mentioned, I wasn't crazy about dealing with the daggerboards on my H18. Also, I didn't feel comfortable solo sailing it unless the winds were very light. (I couldn't right it by myself). I weight 175lb. Am I correct in assuming that I would be able to right a H17, FX-one, Nacra 5.0 and Nacra 5.2? What about righting a 5.5 & 5.7?
Scott, does your H18 have wings? If so do you like them? Pros & cons! -
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Posted: Aug 28, 2009 - 03:38 PM
If your only going to be sailing once or twice a month, then keeping it simple is what you want to do.
A H16 or a P16 are simple, can be rigged in less than 45min, and taken down just as quick, very easily managed solo, and can be found for less than $1500. Like Andrew said there is no reason not to expect you to get your money back out of it.
I went this route at the beginning of the year, when I got back into sailing. I wanted something cheap and easy, as I taught my 10 y/o daughter the joys of sailing. Knowing full well that in a couple of years we would upgrade to something bigger.
It was also easier to sell my wife on spending the $1200 when she saw that we would most likely get the $ back out. I didnt mention to her that it would be used for something bigger ;)
edited by: H16-71388, Aug 28, 2009 - 03:41 PM -
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Posted: Aug 28, 2009 - 03:47 PM
That was a big concern for me before I bought my boat also as I was never able to right our old Hobie 16. I'm 220 lbs and I can right my Nacra 5.2 provided I face the tramp into the wind. I would think the 5.0, 5.5 and 5.7 would be similar to the 5.2 (similar hull floatation and sail area).
I have found that having a well sealed mast to provide floatation helps a lot, you can also attach a tether ball or some empty bleach containers to the top of your mast/mainsail headboard to give yourself some extra floatation at the end of the mast (or pay serious cash for a hobie bob). You can also get a power righting system (basically a 6 foot pole and attachment hardware that allows you to get more leverage).
One neat option I recently saw is the Hobie Solo Upright. It extends your shrouds by a couple of feet when you are capsized bringing the top hull to the other side of the boats center of gravity. This means you need a lot less weight to right the boat.
Basically there are many tricks and righting systems to help with that problem because almost everyone has to deal with it. You should be able to find something to help you right almost any cat for a reasonable price.
Dave
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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Aug 28, 2009 - 04:19 PM
Yes mine H18 has the old style Magnum wings and I love them. The only con I can think of is added weight if you race, which I don't. Also the downwind wing will start dragging in the water if you get the hull to high
For pros the primary one is comfort. Sitting in an upright position like sitting on a park bench while sailing is a great feeling on a cat. Also gets the crew off the jib adjustment track that runs down the hull, wife doesn't like how that feels. Also trapped out off the wing is a great feeling, you start 2' off the water and go up from there. They enable me at ~200lbs to be out in 15mph winds without fear by myself. Also delays the point where you need someone on the wire, some of my crew don't like the trap out and sitting on the wing is similar leverage to trapping out on a boat without wings.
Also if the wind is light you can sit on the hull and use the wing as a back rest. Wife also found they make nice places to take a knap.
I am in big favor of the wings as you might be able to tell. The H17 wings look similar but never sailed one.
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Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
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Posted: Aug 28, 2009 - 04:39 PM
Thanks for all your feedback. Some great comments that definitely will help in making my decision. I'm going to check and see if I can hookup with any beachcat owners in the area or Florida panhandle, do a little more research, and maybe take a ride on a couple boats.
Thanks -
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Posted: Sep 02, 2009 - 07:03 AM
I´m stealing the thread a bit, seems like I would have typed the same subject anyway!
I´m also looking in to buying a cat, and I have some options. Living in sweden and I think the market for cats here are a bit smaller then in the Us.
I would like to have it for som fast and exciting crusing and raiding basically. Do some camping and at the same time meeting up with friends and just sail for fun.
Me and my girlfriend together about 260 lbs, but it would be nice to be able to take on one more passenger.
The cats that are for sale in my area:
Nacra 5.5- Basically the nacra 5.5 seems to be the best option, looks better and this one also have a trailer. Look modern and I read somewhere that the nacras have a bit more volume in the hulls?
Nacra 6.0- Same as above but with more volume,+ for crusing-camping and no trouble for carrying that extra person. But will I be able to handle it alone?
Hobie 18- Classic but the nacra 5.5 seems better and more modern?
Hobie 17- Lets skip the guest and only sail it with two persons. Nice with wings for longer sailing trips, but is it still to much weight?
Basically the nacra 5.5 seems to be the best option, looks better and this one also have a trailer. Look modern and I read somewhere that the nacras have a bit more volume in the hulls?
Thx for replys!
/Ben
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Posted: Sep 02, 2009 - 08:57 AM
Benny, what is your skill level? If you are new to cat sailing the 6.0 is a lot of boat to start with. it is possible but you can find yourself overpowered quick. this is true on the 5.5 and the H18 as well... but less so.wqe
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Posted: Sep 02, 2009 - 09:14 AM
i went straight to lake sailing on a nacra 5.2 without too many problems
the 5.5 replaced the 5.2 and is slightly lighter, slightly longer, slightly wider. all good, esp. lighter
for soloing it is easy to remove the jib, if the 1 you are taking about is a sloop and not a uni
perhaps because the 5.5 was boomless the main is actually slightly smaller than the main on the 5.2, which is good for soloing, and it makes up for it by having a bigger jib, (lower with a bridal foil and window) which is good for when you have crew
a fast friend on his 5.2 says his friend's 5.5 was usually slightly faster
so i say go for the 5.5
the hobie18 is really too heavy for solo use and the nacra 6.0 too heavy and powerful
edited by: erice, Sep 02, 2009 - 08:15 AM -
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Posted: Sep 02, 2009 - 09:29 AM
My skill level would be "fast learner"!;)
But I feel that I have the right judgement to decide when it best to stay on the beach. And I will mainly use the cat in winds up to 16 knots, after that im off kitesurfing ,if alone, anyway.
My biggest concern is how much weight they can carry, im pretty cinfident that I can handle the cat after a while.
All the best,
Ben
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Posted: Sep 02, 2009 - 09:43 AM
All the boats listed can carry 2 people. the h17 will suffer greatly in light air and waves.. so i would eleminate that one from your list unless you are hell bent on having wings and no jib.
the 5.5 sounds good (esp after reading the data from erice).
I do dissagree the H18 is to heavy for solo as i solo'd mine all the time.. but i did need help stepping the mast (i think you will on the nacra's as well.. they are HEAVY)
i would not concider a 6.0 unless you have a good amount of experience -
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Posted: Sep 02, 2009 - 11:08 AM
Ok thx for the input!
Then its between the hobie 18 and the nacra 5.5 then! Any suggestion when choosing in beetwen these two when in equal condition? The hobie seems to be at bit cleaner,not to many lines etc but the nacra just looks better and more modern. Whos the best if in waves?
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Posted: Sep 02, 2009 - 11:10 AM
I have a 5.5, so I am a little biased. Before I bought the 5.5, I looked at the 6.0. Way too much boat for single handing or 2up with a smallish crew.
My 5.5 is a 2001 uni with a carbon mast. I am 185 lbs and have no problem moving the boat around the beach or righting it by myself.
Rigging takes about 45 minutes, but I remove everything but the tramp for transport. About 95% of the rigging is done solo, but I do need a helper to pull on the trap handle to get the bridles attached properly. The need for the second person could be replaced with a set of shroud de-tensioners.
I lift the mast into position with the shrouds attached and set to the desired rake for the conditions. I don't think that you can just muscle the aluminum spar up by yourself (unless you are much stronger than me(not hard)). The carbon spar is only about 35 lbs, but is expensive to replace if you break it. Make sure that you get mast insurance if you buy a boat with a carbon fiber mast.
When sailing.......
Large volume hulls mean crew weight is not an issue, but breaking through surf can be.
This boat is a handful when sailing solo in wind above 15 knots. That being said, it is fast. I use a wrist mounted gps for heading and speed and the highest that I have seen it read is 22.1 knots. It may have read higher, but I more important things to do than look at my wrist at that point.
The carbon spar makes the boat a little faster than the aluminum masted couterparts and makes righting very easy.
The uni rig will also out point most sloop rigged boats.
Later boats had some advantages over early boats, the least of which is weight. Early boats weighted around 375 lbs (rigged) and had a plug type transom. The plug transom had some problems and was replaced. This may be the reason that newer boats weigh in around 340 lbs. The newer boats also have bridle wire plates attached to the inside of the hulls instead of the outside. This is important if you choose to run a spinnaker as the bridle foil is too short for the older boats and puts additional pressure on the hulls.
There are several variants of the 5.5. As a less experienced person who only weighs in the 180 range, I would stick to the 5.5 uni (172 square feet of main) or sl. The Max is similar to the uni, but carries more sail. The 18sq is a 5.5 with an 11 foot beam and 20 more square feet of sail. The extra beam and sail bring extra challenges.
Sorry for the long post, but it may help you to avoid some problems if you do decide to go with the 5.5.
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Posted: Sep 02, 2009 - 11:15 AM
ah missed that the hobie 18 is a bit heavier!I think it will be a 5.5 then if still at sale! But if not, a h18 will probably do just fine!Any good site with a review on the nacra 5.5 and hobie 18?
