Cat for one/two-up light crew
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Posted: Sep 20, 2009 - 02:30 PM
I am looking for a reasonably fast and fun cat for one-up (145lbs) and two-up (245lbs). Sailing in ocean bay with some waves, easy righting hence appreciated!
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Posted: Sep 20, 2009 - 03:53 PM
H16, P16, any cat in the 16' range, depending on your level of experience. One can be picked up for reasonable $$$'s, also parts are readily available used and 2nd hand. 16" cat can be solo'd easily but can also carry extra crew, up to 300lbs total. Can be trailered easy, rigged easily and with beachwheels can be maneuvered into the water easily. If you're a more experienced sailor, you might consider 18' range but the step up in just 2 feet opens up a pandora's box of extra issues such as daggarboards, mast stepping, available crew etc etc.
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TurboHobo
H14T
H16
P18
G-Cat 5.0
P16
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Posted: Sep 20, 2009 - 05:10 PM
Thanks Robert! Given my and my son's light weight, I was leaning towards a Nacra 460 or equivalent 14' Cat. Am I heading in the wrong direction?
Tomas -
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Posted: Sep 20, 2009 - 06:14 PM
I would also recommend the 16' cat size. 250lbs is a good weight for that boat length, but maybe to much for a 14 foot boat. If you get a 14' cat you probably will want to upgrade soon, which as long as you are ok with that it isn't a big deal.
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Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
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Posted: Sep 20, 2009 - 10:01 PM
Tomas, 14' cat way too small, I started on a H14 Turbo, it's equiped with a jib, I weigh 200 lbs and only when there was a good wind would the boat get up and go. 14' would be a good size for your son to learn on but not for 2. The difference between 14' and 16' is as extreme as the difference between 16' and 18', one might think it's only 2' but if you ever get to compare all 3 next to each other you will see what I mean, hull volume alone is one major difference. I would recommend going with 16' as it is a 2 man boat that can easily be sailed solo by even a novice. The only downside is that righting solo would require some assistance with a righting bag or a righting pole as it is near impossible to solo right a 16' with a righting line. I know, I've tried multiple times by capsizing my H16 in a small cove and trying to right it solo without a bag, no go. So I now find myself working on a righting pole for my H16
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TurboHobo
H14T
H16
P18
G-Cat 5.0
P16
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Posted: Sep 21, 2009 - 08:48 AM
I am around 200lbs and found I can get a H16 back up as long as there is decent wind and a sealed mast. I need the wind on the tramp while trying to right to boat to get it back up. In calm air I don't have a chance, but as long as there is enough wind to tip me over I can usually get it back up with effort.
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Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
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Posted: Sep 21, 2009 - 10:46 AM
Thank you all for the feedback. Seems as if 14' is fine for me but borderline for two-up, while 16' is fine for both BUT will be a challenge to right alone (at only 145lbs). Given that I am going to sail in fairly open sea, the final question is; does any 16' cat have foolproof righting assistance (given you get the technique right) ?
Tomas -
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Posted: Sep 21, 2009 - 11:33 AM
The only thing foolproof about any boat is if you do something really wrong.. you will swim... or worse
if you are not very experienced, you should really not be solo in open seas (at least now without other boats around to assist in the event a storm moves through and capsizes you or other).
IF you are set in solo sailing in open waters.. you NEED to carry alot of emergency gear .. such as.. cell phone, uhf phone, flairs, water, lights, whistles, etc. I STRONGLY suggest a righting bag or pole... but this is a lot of gear for an H14 or 16 even..
I would really consider the H16 so you can have crew anytime you are going in open seas (at least until your compentency is enought to handle ALL possible situations) -
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Posted: Sep 21, 2009 - 12:01 PM
The righting really comes down to conditions and how experienced the person(s) are with righting procedures.
No matter what boat you go with practice righting it in shallow water.
I would urge you to go with the 16. I solo mine fine and I weigh in at 160 lbs. You just need to know when to power down the boat before you get into trouble. I made the mistake of trying to sail with jib and main up and the wind was blowing 15-20 knots. After about a half hour of just working to keep the boat right side up I called it a day.
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Posted: Sep 22, 2009 - 03:28 AM
Again thanks! I have sailed a number of dinghies in all wind conditions in oceans and lakes, with the comfort that I can right it if required. Now moving on to Cats, I just need the same comfort that I can right it. I was out with a friend in a Dart16, 300lbs combined, and we could right it with a regular righting rope, but on my own, no way!
Tomas -
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Posted: Sep 22, 2009 - 09:50 AM
Darts are very light boats.. and if you had a little wind (with the correct technuique) it could be solo righted by most adults (over 140lbs?) with just a righting line... or even maybe the jib sheets (but the jib is the size of a napkin on darts.. so i dont know if there is enough sheet)... -
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Posted: Sep 22, 2009 - 10:06 AM
Righting a larger cat was one of my concerns also when I bought one. The thing that I found out early on was that there are lots of accessories to make a cat easier to right, so it shouldn't be your main concern.
For instance H16's are notoriously difficult to right for a beginner, but you can put a mast float (Hobie Bob or a tether ball or a couple of bleach/water jugs) at the top of the mast to provide extra floatation. You can also get a solo right (I think that is what it's called) that will allow you to lengthen the shrouds allowing you to use the top hull as ballast. Or one of the aftermarket righting poles for leverage. I'm not a huge fan of the righting bags, just becuase they are difficult to handle, fill and raise on top of your shoulder.
The fact that you are an experienced sailor already tells me that you should likely be looking for a 16 footer or even a 17 footer (both rigged with just the main for soloing at 145 lbs). I can almost guarantee that if you get a 14' boat you will want something more the first time you sail 2 up.
Regards,
Dave
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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Sep 22, 2009 - 10:30 AM
Bags are not hard to use, just need a little practice and the correct gear (block system)
I have used my bag to successfully right my 450 lb 18' cat in about 4 minutes the first time i ever tried... (i capsized in a 25-30knot gybe and went through my sail... i had just bought the bag a week earlier)
You use the blocks to raise the bag and simply get in front of it and push it outwards. The most important thing is release your main and jib and get your bows 45% to the wind
edited by: andrewscott, Sep 22, 2009 - 10:31 AM -
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Posted: Sep 23, 2009 - 05:42 PM
All again thank you for the responses. I now agree 16' is preferable and had a look at a couple of F16 cats yesterday. Great boats!
Tomas -
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Posted: Sep 23, 2009 - 09:14 PM
Andrew,
I've used this same technique and it works great. I didn't have a block, but was aware that the block would make it even easier.
My bag had a brass clip on it, be sure this clip is not a mickey mouse clip, I broke the brass clip the second time I used it, as a result I lost the bag. GRRRRR -
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Posted: Sep 24, 2009 - 10:00 AM
well, my bag holds 200 lbs of water (or close), and i need every pound i can get to get my 450lb cat and 30' mast up ,there is no way i can pull that weight up to the height needed without my block system.
also, be sure to tie a stopper know in the line used with your bag as many people have righted their cat, jumped on-board (not really possible to do with a 200 bag of water)only to watch the bag sink and the line pay out... goodbye! -
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Posted: Sep 24, 2009 - 04:54 PM
On my prindle, the tramp is secured to the pontoon so the only place to wrap the righting line is around the pontoon close to the front crossbar. This is not center but it seems to work. Can cats be righted by tied to the shroud? Just curious, I wouldn't think the pontoon is designed to take this pressure from the side, but I could be wrong.
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Posted: Sep 24, 2009 - 05:31 PM
I know i am a cat snob, but catamaran have hulls, pontoon are for pontoon boats....
Yes you can tie around a side stay but you will be exerting sideways and downward pressure on parts that were designed for upward pressure only and risk ripping the shroud/stay out the hull... the good news is you wont have to right the boat after that...
you could tie the righting line around the mast base and keep it accessible after a flip in the tramp pocket if you have one.. that way you could reach around (while standing on the inside of the hull after capsize) and pull it out.
Another option is to use your jib sheets as your righting line BUT>.. they may not be long enough.. or give you good grips.
I go with the mast base method. I have some knots in my line to help me climb up the line after righting. I think i even have a loop or 2 for my feet to "ladder" up. This saved my cat 1 time when i righted in heavy air .. the jib filled and the cat took off.. with me hanging on the line...
I have righted my Mystere 5.5 2 times without problem (with a bag), and dozens of other cats.
They do sell semi inexpensive systems that leave lines under the tramp.. one is called the Hawaii system *(look at murrays.com) but they may be only for H16's since they have a raised tramp.. not sure..
edited by: andrewscott, Sep 24, 2009 - 05:34 PM -
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Posted: Sep 25, 2009 - 09:10 AM
i've got a h16 and a p16. hobie flies a hull easier and much fun. prindle is more stable and a little faster in heavy wind. my 118 pound brother can right the hobie by himself using the wind on tramp. still havent flipped the prindle. which ever one you buy, take it out w/friend and practice righting by yourself before soloing to much.
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