First big wind in the Nacra 5.0

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skarr1

Rank: Mate

Registered: Feb 25, 2007

Last visit: Jul 13, 2012

Posts: 414
Posted: Sep 28, 2009 - 10:34 PM

If your rudders are not all the way down you will have weather helm. I have had problems getting my rudders to stay all the way down when it is real windy. They don't have to be up very much to cause a problem. If just one was part way up this could explain the different feel on opposite tacks. Also the dagger boards will have an effect on helm. Raking the mast back will cause more weather helm. The rig should be loose enough for the mast to rotate just past 90deg.
Your tiller bars from the rudders to the cross bar should be straight or have about a 5deg. bend on each toward the center of the boat. The bend corrects the ackerman angle "inner rudder has to turn sharper than the outer"

edited by: skarr1, Sep 28, 2009 - 09:44 PM
MN3

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Registered: Jun 20, 2006

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Posted: Sep 28, 2009 - 10:41 PM

things i have learned:
20 - 25 is wild and hairy.. bows go under the water fast ... mistakes are more dangerous, rigging is much more stressed (I de-masted in 20 knots yesterday. My halyard/turnbuckle snapped), any more air than that is survival mode

sheet in, travel out... all the way if you need to.. every degree you travel out is a degree less you can point so adjust the traveler ass needed during tacks...

if you are very overpowered.. remove the jib.. if you aren't overpowered.. keep the jib if you can.. you will steer/tack better (hopefully)

the bigger air... the more extreme the weather helm will feel, all the more reason to work out the adjustments in normal or medium air

edited by: andrewscott, Sep 28, 2009 - 10:44 PM
Wolfman

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Posted: Sep 28, 2009 - 11:08 PM

Andrew,
Wow, that is scarey. Sounds like good advice!!

I was out by myself yesterday in 15+ knots with big gusts. I found that I ended up travelling out about 3/4 of the way and spilling a ton of wind off the top of the sail. Even then I had problems keeping the hull down to a reasonable level. May have been better if I could have gotten on the wire but then I would have had to steer, travel, main and jib all at the same time on the wire. I couldn't handle all that yet, and probably should have left the jib at home. I should have a furler setup for next season which should help.

D.

--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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erice

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Posted: Sep 29, 2009 - 04:29 AM

another depowering option is to stop mast rotation

in those conditions i would sail my 5.2 without the jib and blow the traveller in tacks to stop weather vanning into irons

the traveller is a big big step forward in boat design that mono have now borrowed from cats, try to to use it more and the mainsheet less. esp. in big winds

without the jib feeding the back of thje main you will need tomake many more traveller adjustments for each point of sail, which is a very good way of learning about sail settings etc.
smfinley

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Registered: Apr 24, 2005

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Posted: Sep 29, 2009 - 08:58 AM

Wolfman May have been better if I could have gotten on the wire but then I would have had to steer, travel, main and jib all at the same time on the wire. I couldn't handle all that yet, and probably should have left the jib at home.
D.

Typically if I am solo and on the wire all I worry about is the main sheet and tiller. I will set the jib and traveller and if I need to adjust them I will come in off the wire. I just recreational sail, but trying to manage 3 lines and the tiller will only get you into trouble. When I had a H16 I would try to leave the jib sheet near my feet, but it would often slide away from me, on my H18M I can't keep it near me while trapping off the wings.

--
Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
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MN3

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Posted: Sep 29, 2009 - 09:17 AM

smfinley
Wolfman May have been better if I could have gotten on the wire but then I would have had to steer, travel, main and jib all at the same time on the wire. I couldn't handle all that yet, and probably should have left the jib at home.
D.

Typically if I am solo and on the wire all I worry about is the main sheet and tiller. I will set the jib and traveller and if I need to adjust them I will come in off the wire. I just recreational sail, but trying to manage 3 lines and the tiller will only get you into trouble. When I had a H16 I would try to leave the jib sheet near my feet, but it would often slide away from me, on my H18M I can't keep it near me while trapping off the wings.

If the traveler line (bitter end) is tied to mainsheet bitter end.. you can pull in the extra line and get to your traveler line.. i also try to keep my jib sheet at my feet but often have to swing my feet in to get it..

I also like to practice my juggling, make a mixed drink, and maybe play some guitar while on the wire...
gordonjs

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Registered: Sep 07, 2009

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Posts: 33
Posted: Sep 29, 2009 - 09:32 AM

Wow, this is all great advice.

Mummp, noted. I'll keep that in mind as 'shit not to do on a cat that I've done on a single'

Wolfman, it wasn't raked forward, I was on the top adjuster on the forestay. Then again, it wasn't raked back that much either. And the 5.0 is, I believe, an 87, and yes the diamonds lines are raked back.

I think my issue, from all that have posted, is rudder rake for the weather helm and heavy crew/heavy wind/new cat sailor for the diving bows.

I'm going to try and fiddle with my rudders to see what I can get out of them, I seem to remember one being slightly aft and I couldn't get it to pull in further, so that would probably explain some of it.
Wolfman

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Registered: Jun 24, 2009

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Posted: Sep 29, 2009 - 11:53 AM

Gordonjs,

Take a look at this thread:
http://www.thebeachcats.com/module-forum-viewtopic-topic-11208.html

About halfway down is a picture of TurboCat's 2:1 setup for his rudders. I did this on my cat and have no problems cinching up the rudders even in the highest winds. Apparently it doesn't affect the pivmatic (pop up) rudder system to any great degree but I haven't actually used them.

Regards,
Dave

--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
--
MN3

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Posted: Sep 29, 2009 - 01:26 PM

rudder adjustments are a matter of mm's. i recently adjusted about 15 times before it was correct. i take some tools out for a sail and adjust on the fly or when i pull up somewhere and make a 1 slight adjustment..1adjustment at a time!)

I also use a sharpie to mark the adjustments (screw or ring or whatever) position. its a good reference point if need be later..
DamonLinkous

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Posted: Sep 29, 2009 - 03:37 PM

Excellent Thread!

On Topic (until this post), multiple contributions, and well phrased questions without any bickering or name calling.

I'm hoping this is what the forums here at TheBeachcats.com will become known for.

Thanks Eeveryone!

Now, back to your discussion.

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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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gordonjs

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Sep 07, 2009

Last visit: Oct 30, 2009

Posts: 33
Posted: Sep 29, 2009 - 03:54 PM

Agreed with above. I'm new to cat sailing and this forum, and was worried a bit about being 'flamed' as the 'new guy who doesn't know what's up', but so far, my few topics I've posted about have been met with great response and help. I really appreciate it guys!

The sharpie idea is a good one. I don't mind having marked up rudders/adjustment points if they are functional marks!
Wolfman

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Registered: Jun 24, 2009

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Posted: Sep 29, 2009 - 06:43 PM

I'm a newbie to catsailing myself and have had nothing but positive experiences here!! The people are friendly and respond very quickly. There are a few people who have been doing this for a long time and seem to be very committed to helping us new people out and growing the sport. That's an awesome thing!

A place like this makes getting into the sport sooo much easier and less intimidating than it was when I started about 20 years ago. Back then you had to guess if something would work and pray it did. :)

--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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lawrencer2003

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Registered: Sep 05, 2004

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Posts: 327
Posted: Sep 29, 2009 - 10:43 PM

I concur. Not a newbie but I've learned more about sailing on this site and since I went from an HT14 to a 5.8na this site has given me the knowledge and confidence to really enjoy my cat. Great for technical assistance also. I talk this site up on my beach all the time. Its more than an Craigs list for cat sailors.