When I bought the dyneema for tramp lacing the gal just put one tight wrap of electrical tape around the line, then cut it with one clean stroke of a razor knife. I asked her about if heat sealing the ends was OK, she said, "yes, do want me to do them"
I thought I might as well...she had a setup that electrically heated a flat strip of thin steel. She just barely touched the line to the hot plate, by not applying any pressure, it prevented that mushrooming effect. By "barely touching", I mean little pressure, contact was established for probably 4-5 seconds.
Another thing I have done to prevent the mushroom end is to grab the dripping end,(leather gloves of course)between thumb & forefinger, the twist the rope with the other hand, simultaneously pulling it from between your thumb & finger. This results in a pointed end to the line, that you can now cut back a bit if desired.
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Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
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Amsteel Trap Lines
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Posted: Dec 21, 2009 - 10:35 AM
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Posted: Dec 21, 2009 - 10:48 AM
Good to know, my understanding was that some of the high tech lines don't melt, they just burn.
D.
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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Dec 22, 2009 - 09:57 PM
Coming in late on the thread... I used spectron line on my traps... it is an extremely strong fiber and easy to tie. While this is true... pay attention to the language concerning the sheath covering the spectron strands. The sheath prevents rubbing of the strand... a very important role. While you can pick up a truck with 3/8th inch spec.... it does not like to be rubbed. I did not pay much attention to the sheath despite seeing it going bad. Long story short... I took a dip very suddenly one day, broke my tiller. Had I not held tight to my main sheet line... my 5.7 would have left me stranded.
When I redux my traps I will go to stainless steel set to length... it sucks seeing your boat leaving you.
edited by: Deepsees, Dec 23, 2009 - 02:58 AM -
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Posted: Dec 22, 2009 - 10:41 PM
Does the side of the eye chafe against the mast?
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Rob
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Posted: Dec 28, 2009 - 09:54 AM
so i am told.. of course you need to use a thimble too -
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Posted: Dec 28, 2009 - 02:52 PM
I'm thinking of using stainless sailmaker thimbles (no sharp ends). Andrew, I really like the idea of using a stainless steel wire pigtail at the top. It would only have to be a couple of feet long so I don't think it would defeat the advantage of reducing weight aloft but it wold reduce chafing! A couple of donut spacers on the line or even one of those split plastic covers would probably help also.
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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Dec 28, 2009 - 03:19 PM
but if it doesnt save weight, and you make a steel tail with 2 eyes (thimbles) on each trap wire... what is to be gained? looks cool? thats whats stopped me.. -
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Posted: Dec 28, 2009 - 05:02 PM
Hmm, why wouldn't it save weight? My trap lines are 18 feet long 3/32" stainless wire. Total wire weight for 4 trap lines is approximatly 1.2 lbs.
Replace that with 4 - 2' wire pigtails side plus 5/32" amsteel should be approximatley 0.6 lbs.
OK that is pretty marginal. So the only real reason to do it is that it will look cool... and maybe be a little less harsh on the hands and body. Wonder if I can find some red wire covers. :)
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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Dec 30, 2009 - 12:34 PM
Watching TV last night, making this:
I noticed that two 2.75mm dyneema lines fit really well inside of a 1/4" thimble. It's too cold to go test fit it with the shackle but it still looks like it would work. I think the thimble itself would protect the lines from chafe, as long as they didn't rub themselves to death. Either way, an oversized thimble may make this work.
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Rob
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Posted: Dec 31, 2009 - 09:29 PM
Yurdle, the chafe does not come from the turn or where it connects to the hound. It comes from the repeated rubbing against the mast and hound from repeated mast rotations and also from the trap lines and strouds abrasion against each other.
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Philip
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Posted: Jan 01, 2010 - 01:05 PM
lol, nice avatar pic.
My hound (my guess is all 5.2's, although I've only checked a couple) has two holes, and the trap lines mount to the top, while the shrouds mount to the bottom. b/c of the few inches of separation the shrouds and trap lines never touch.
I see how there could be an issue with the leeward trap lines rubbing on the edge of the hound as the mast rotates, although they don't move in relation to it, and have no tension on them.
Thanks for the heads-up. I'll try to test it thoroughly.
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Rob
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Posted: Jan 01, 2010 - 02:03 PM
oh, they do indeed. Another problem area is where the trap line swag near the thimble hangs up on the clevis pin to the 5/16" shroud shackle. It is the first 6" that you should provide for a sacrificial cover.
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Philip
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Posted: Feb 05, 2010 - 06:20 AM
I use a butane powered soldering iron with a hot knife fitting. friend of mine put me onto them. definitely in the favorite toy category!! -
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Posted: Feb 05, 2010 - 10:40 AM
That won't work with a pure dyneema or vectran line. They don't melt, they burn. You have to use some type of whipping. My current favorite is electrical shrink tube, works like a charm!
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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Feb 05, 2010 - 11:41 AM
Not true, dyneema melts at 144 degrees Celcius and Vectran at 330 degrees Celcius. Hot knifes do work on these fibers and is the common tool in the shop, it just that a hot knife is not very convenient on the beach. Hood's system provides for a portable way to hot knife the fibers on the beach. We've also used the portable butane torches for various uses, usually 'cause sometimes the wind is blowing hard and lighters and such don't work.
Dave, just curious, have you tried the super glue and a box cutter? It's simple and the glue makes the line much easier to get that clean cut.
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Philip
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Posted: Feb 05, 2010 - 12:07 PM
Interesting, I couldn't get my Vectran to melt with a torch. It just burned and charred. I have a butane torch with a hot knife and I couldn't get it hot enough at my cabin.
Actually no, I haven't used the super glue technique, I've just been using electrical shrink tube (also sold as 'shrink whipping' at some sailing stores for about 3 times the cost). I take about 2 inches of 3/8" tube (for 3/8" line) and slide it to the spot I want to cut, heat it to shrink (it can shrink 1/2 it original diameter so it puts really good pressure on the rope end) and then cut through the tube. I now have two line ends that are securely whipped and the whipping won't come undone!
Also I cut my lines using one of those ceramic paring knives they sell for kitchen use (don't tell my wife I'm using her good knife). The thing is sharp like crazy and goes through the toughest rope super clean. I'm thinking of getting one just for my gear box it works so good!
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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Feb 06, 2010 - 06:22 AM
http://shop.ebay.com.au/i…ion+Hands+free&_osacat=0
Mine does 480 degrees C. seriously like a hot knife through butter! -
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Posted: Feb 06, 2010 - 09:03 AM
. . . don't see a name associated with hood. Is this Darren?
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Philip
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Posted: Feb 07, 2010 - 03:32 AM
Certainly is Philip!
registered 2003, only took about 7 years to get around to posting.. must be some kind of record :)
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Posted: Feb 07, 2010 - 05:39 AM
i'm guessing you have swept spreaders on your 5.2? my 1982 5.2 has straight spreaders and just the 1 mast hound hole for a D-ring shackle that originally carried just 3 eyelets, as each sidestay swage also carried the single crew trap line that was standard back in the day, however about 1983 helm trapping became common it and as extra trap lines were added to the hound it got crowded up there and nacra enlarged the mast hound to accept another hole specifically for trap lines
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