In a gusty 15 to 25 knot wind, I somehow lost grip and held on to the tiller not to fall off, causing the cat go downwind. The resulting centrifugal forces going into a curve made me pull even harder on the tiller and we accidentally gybed... sound familiar?
Anyway, the cat immediately turtled, I'd say after only 20 seconds. By the time we jumped on the centerboard it was already too late.
On former capsizes, the mast did float as it _is_ properly sealed. I will however check that later statement.
My best guess is that the 25, perhaps 30 knot gust was just too much blowing on the trampoline. I was assured by members of this forum that "your mast should float for at least 20 minutes"... I'm gonna sue you guys :)
We stood on the leeward hull and pulled on the righting line, and the weather hull did come out of the water a few inches, but not more. The main and traveller were uncleated.
My question: If the traveller had been in the middle and the main sheet should have been tightly cleated, would there have a chance of bringing her up from the turtle position?
A motor boat helped pulling but they stopped for whatever reason once the mast was floating on the water. From that position we installed our home-made righting pole and brought her up by our own. This is another reason why I claim the mast is sealed properly. There was no indication of water in the mast.
Thanks,
Dan
edited by: catdan, Jan 14, 2010 - 05:04 PM
Righting P18-2 from turtle position
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Posted: Jan 13, 2010 - 06:30 PM
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Posted: Jan 13, 2010 - 06:45 PM
i always thought about floatation on the mast top, looks a little like socks on a rooster though.
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bill harris
hattiesburg, mississippi
prindle 16- "BLUE RIBBON"
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Posted: Jan 13, 2010 - 07:30 PM
Update:
About one third of a gallon of water in the mast. Not great, but acceptable considering the mast was under water for about 15 minutes.
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Posted: Jan 13, 2010 - 08:21 PM
Wind on the tramp will definitely turtle it quickly. So will sitting on the windward hull while it capsizes and staying up there wondering wtf just happened.
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Rob
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Posted: Jan 13, 2010 - 10:13 PM
what did you say when....
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bill harris
hattiesburg, mississippi
prindle 16- "BLUE RIBBON"
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Posted: Jan 14, 2010 - 09:44 AM
i have never experienced a turtle (that sounds bad) but i believe that much air on your tramp can be a factor...
i guess thats part of why you need to get the bows into the wind (not that you could in heavy air.. in 20 seconds)
next time you should capsize upwind (kidding) -
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Posted: Jan 14, 2010 - 11:51 AM
You can still turtle even with a sealed mast. Wind under the tramp can do it if the force is enough to overcome the bouyance of the mast. Once the mast has sunk beyond a certain point the weight of the hulls will keep it sunk.
My understanding is that if you put all your weight near the back of the leeward hull and pull on the righting line (attached to the front beam). This will cause the bows to come up, the boat will rotate and the mast will eventually float up to a normal capsize position. You can then right the boat normally.
I haven't done this because if my boat goes over that far in my lake, the mast is about 6 feet in the mud. Anyone else used this trick?
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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Jan 14, 2010 - 12:35 PM
Yes, I've had to do it a few times. I don't remember being able to pull it off solo...not quite sure, though. With two people stand on the hull as close to the rudder as you can and hang on to the righting line. The balance is a little tricky as the boat will try to slide you right off, but if you can stay on the boat will roll and as it does, your weight will pull the mast up. You don't right it in one motion, but doing the above will get the boat back on its side, then you can right it as normal. Don't forget though, the mast will definitely have water in it at this point, so you can't waste any time righting it, as it will be trying to turtle now. I've hooked my harness to the righting line and laid back waiting on crew to get in position when necessary.
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Rob
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Posted: Jan 14, 2010 - 03:38 PM
yea harness is good for a rest while righting ... but be careful getting back on your boat.. many a boat gets punctured with your hook... -
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Posted: Jan 14, 2010 - 06:13 PM
My theory tells me to have the main and traveller cleated until the mast is in horizontal position, for the sail to act as a huge centerboard.
We did not try standing near the rudders, but my best guess is that we will never be able to righten it from a turtle with a total of only 260lbs crew weight.
Luckily it happened in deep water. I had to paddle for a few minutes as the wind was blowing us right towards an anchored freighter.
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Posted: Jan 14, 2010 - 06:16 PM
How come???!
:)
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Posted: Jan 14, 2010 - 09:57 PM
Leave the lines uncleated, and remember you're not righting it from being turtled, you're rolling it up on its side.
Afterwards, you go through your normal routine of righting the boat.
260 is a bit light, but I'd certainly give it a try if I was turtled.
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Rob
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Posted: Jan 15, 2010 - 09:38 AM
I am a vegetarian? (NOT)
i seal my mast?
i dont capsize often? (3x in my past 300 sails) (6x in my past 500 sails?)
edited by: andrewscott, Jan 15, 2010 - 09:39 AM -
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Posted: Jan 15, 2010 - 07:03 PM
last time i flipped, ronald regan was in office and i weighed 165lbs. these days my buddy and i weigh inn around 500 something. you should gain 70 or so pounds to help keep her up. i recommend pork and beer, lots of it!
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bill harris
hattiesburg, mississippi
prindle 16- "BLUE RIBBON"
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Posted: Jan 20, 2010 - 02:09 PM
Ronald Reagan...what a hoot. Well I happen to have "turtled" my cat more than a few times. Hence the handle. I am one of those self taught guys that didn't have a clue when I first hit the water - there wasn't internet or a library close by. Anyhow, I uncleat everything, throw my weight out and wait. It takes a bit of time and the boat will start to roll to forward or aft, but I try to maintain myself on the side and keep her coming over (thats the tricky part). There was one time that this didn't work, and I had a bad storm about to roll in. In the "emergency mode" I took the main halyard to a nearby boat and pulled my mast up as my crew was using their weight to help. We were very light that day. It wasn't sexy, but I avoided losing the boat. -
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Posted: Jan 23, 2010 - 06:07 AM
Update: The day it happened someone told me we had 40 knot gusts!
A few days later in the same if not worse conditions I did it again! The wind was blowing at a steady 15 knots, then all of a sudden no wind at all for like 10 seconds--I almost fell backwards into the water--followed by a violent, howling gust that shook the boat and tipped her over even though I eased the uncleated main. I guess the jib alone will do it if you get hit by a 40 knots gust.
Anyway, this time she turtled on me almost immediately.
Now guess what? I was able to singlehandedly bring the P18-2 up from turtle to normal capsize position with my flimsy body weight of only 160lbs!
You trim and cleat the main, traveller in middle position, then stand on the leeward hull as Yurdle suggested, and the wind will do the rest. Once in normal capsize position, you uncleat the main of course.
HTH,
Dan
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