I am going to pick up a Prindle 18 tomorrow and have been thinking about putting a Hooter on it. I do not race and love cruising.
I am leaning towards the hooter over a spin is because it looks easy to operate and performs very well in light wind conditions. I love sailing on slick water and this usually means lighter winds.
I have done some reading on this site and on Catsailor but I want to know TheBeachCats opinion.
Here's a couple questions.
I trailer my cat every time i sail, so whats set-up time?
What are some of the disadvantages?
Thanks for all input in advanced.
Keith
edited by: kinlawk, Jan 21, 2010 - 10:19 PM
How do you like "Hooters" ?
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Posted: Jan 21, 2010 - 10:18 PM
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Posted: Jan 22, 2010 - 03:35 AM
i have a roller furling hooter/screacher?/reacher/code zero assymetrical spinnaker/gennaker on my weta and like it alot
advantages; can be furled and unfurled easier solo
can be used in very light winds to actually go slightly to weather
if the wind is too strong for it's use when i set up i simply leave the prodder off and don't pull the furler sail up the mast
disadvantages; being flat enough to furl means being very flat, so it's downwind angles are not as good as a deeper cut assym or symetrical spin downwind, retro fitting a hooter requires a few more bits, like the furling hardware
adding either of them to an old cat will probably cost as much as the cat is worth again...
some masts aren't strong enough for them and break
you are more likely to capsize the boat
more to go wrong in a blow, half furled and jammed makes it difficult to go to weather etc.
more ropes to tangle on the tramp
but a good blast downwind with one will leave you hooked and the ability to still go sailing when the wind is next to zero is great
edited by: erice, Jan 22, 2010 - 02:37 AM -
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Posted: Jan 22, 2010 - 08:56 AM
well said eric. i agree with all points.
PS my friend ran a code zero for years on his P18, no problems.
there is very little extra set up time needed once all in place. you can either stow it when not in use and raise it when needed, or sail with it up all day (little extra windage, but if not racing.. who cares) -
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Posted: Jan 22, 2010 - 01:49 PM
Andrew do you know what size it was?
Do think that a sail like that could be found used?
Can a Code Zero from a different boat work on mine?
Thanks for the input!
edited by: kinlawk, Jan 22, 2010 - 01:49 PM -
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Posted: Jan 22, 2010 - 01:52 PM
Can this problem be helped by adjusting luff tension? -
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Posted: Jan 22, 2010 - 02:26 PM
kinlawk, I've known a lot of sailors who tried furling head sails on beachcats, but I don't know any that still use them.
The reason no one uses them now is the great advancement of spin snuffing systems.
In the old days (early 1990's) when the furling head sails were "invented" the only way to launch a spinnaker from a beachcat was to use a spin bag on the tramp, just like the big boats. The spinnaker had to be gathered and packed into the bag when it was dropped, very hard to do when flying a hull!
Now with the perfection of the snuffer systems, using a spinnaker is dead simple, the sail is stowed out of the way, upwind performance is not affected, and weight aloft is reduced.
The furling systems look simpler but I've witnessed all kinds of havok caused by these things coming unfurled at the wrong time or refusing to furl when you absolutely must reduce sail right now! Once these beasts are unfurled it can be impossible to furl them, and you can't even drop the sail by cutting lines or other emergency methods.
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Posted: Jan 22, 2010 - 05:01 PM
That is really good information. I'm trying to piece together a Spin system for my Nacra on the cheap (not easy) and have been debating the hooter versus the snuffer. I'm still trying to figure out exactly how a snuffer works exactly, and why the hoop costs so incredibly much.
Regards,
Dave
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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Jan 22, 2010 - 07:14 PM
here's a diagram from a sail maker showing the different kinds of spins they make, presumably they are all different cuts and shapes but it can quite clearly be seen how limited the performance sailing angles are. loose luff tension can not make a "pocket" in a flat sail and tight luff tension can not remove the "pocket" on a deeply cut sail
here are a couple of videos showing the flat weta reacher from afar and from the boat, note most of the furling hassles on the boat were newbie errors and not system problems. all big loose sails need special techniques to avoid the wind taking over control of them from the sailor
http://www.youtube.com/user/eric3810101#p/a/u/0/LzESf7bZhTo
http://www.youtube.com/user/eric3810101#p/a/u/1/u-kFg4cncnA
edited by: erice, Jan 22, 2010 - 06:23 PM -
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Posted: Jan 22, 2010 - 07:22 PM
Haha... Damon lies!!!!
i LOVE my spin.. and had bag launched for my first season months while learning.. but
there is no perfect spin snuffer... there are still a ton of things that go wrong with snuffing.. you have:
endless tries to get the halyard/retrieval line the right length
lots of time working out the correct patches (more often with used gear)
you have tons of tries to get the spin to go in the bag
if you have a new spin.. you have to break the headboard in to go "in the tube"
you have bag ending UV damage in 1 season if not covered
you have shrimping your sail... to the point your gonna die if you dont cut the halyard....
you have retrieval lines hanging under your boat to constantly deal with'
you have tack lines (usually separate to deal with)
etc.. its all more hardware..
AND .. when things go bad with a parachute out in front of your catamaran... and you are now turning/heading upwind... with a parachute now in your jib/main/face... and a $1000000000 boat behind you..... times can get "exciting"...
the code zero is good for light air and slight up wind use..
but I would JUST GO SPIN :) you'll love it and not think twice
PS i will get the specs for the size of the code zero. i will ask. He did have a $700 continues furler that made it very nice
edited by: andrewscott, Jan 22, 2010 - 07:38 PM -
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Posted: Jan 24, 2010 - 10:06 AM
I was 'given' a large purple hooter for my H21 after the Key Largo Steeple Chase Race, with the promise to return it when I move up to a spin. Much of the hardware will be common to both the spin and the hooter. I am currently in the process of procuring all the necessary hardware and lines. There is a great article on how to best utilize the hooter on catsailor by Rick White. Take a look, it is very informative.
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Flightlead Bimare F18 HT SpaceCoast
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Posted: Jan 24, 2010 - 01:50 PM
Thanks for the help. I got the boat yesterday and realized that i have a lot of work to do.
Lets just say for know that the only hooters in my future come with chicken wings. -
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Posted: Mar 01, 2010 - 12:36 PM
Did anybody watch the two America's Cup races between BMW/Oracle and Team Alinghi? This was a perfect example on how to use the hooter.
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Flightlead Bimare F18 HT SpaceCoast
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