I will probably end up sailing my Nacra 5.7 solo a fair bit. Even with crew, there will be many days where we go out several times a day. In the interest of simplifying things I'm thinking of converting the jib to a roller furling system.
What parts do I need to buy and/or modify. I see some kits on Murrays, but not much info & pictures are not clear.
Once you do convert, do you leave the sail rolled all the time. What sort of UV covers do you use. Are there any disadvantages to it?
Anyone have any good pictures of their setups?
Thanks
edited by: Edchris177, Feb 01, 2010 - 01:52 PM
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What's involved to convert to roller furling?
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Posted: Feb 01, 2010 - 02:47 PM
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Posted: Feb 01, 2010 - 03:24 PM
I will leave the specs to the nacra owners but to answer a few of your other questions:
Once you do convert, do you leave the sail rolled all the time. - no on most cats (with a Portuguese turnbuckle setup) you MUST remove the jib before you can untie the forestay and lower the mast. on the hobie18 style furler (doesn't have a ring that you tie to like the Portuguese) you have a chain-plate that you use a pin to secure. I used to leave my jib furled and on my tramp (usually in a bag) for easy set up... knowing what i know now.. i wouldnt recommend it. it is an invatation to mildew, rot, UV and rodent damage (or other pest)
What sort of UV covers do you use. Are there any disadvantages to it? - they do sell a UV cover in murray's. We leave our cats out 2days/3nights a week (with jib furled).. I THINK i will blow out / trash my sail before the sun does, but i am sure the cover would be nice. (I am on my 3rd or 4th jib in 2 years)
disadvantages - well if you sail a full jib with horizontal battens.. you will need to remove them. u can add angled small battens. other disadvantages ... more parts to break.. but so what. :)
Anyone have any good pictures of their setups?
I will post...
Hobie style furler
Regular style (Portuguese Turnbuckle)
edited by: andrewscott, Feb 01, 2010 - 03:32 PM -
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Posted: Feb 01, 2010 - 03:45 PM
Thanks Andrew, I should have added that the mast goes up in the spring, & stays up til end of season. The Cat will stay at my place all year, I don't foresee it ever being moved to another lake.
What is involved with cutting forestay, & fitting of the furling parts? I'm thinking you cut a piece out, attach swivel at top of jib, roller at bottom along with a means of tensioning rig. Do you use the standard jib, how do you prevent the stay from turning inside the zippered jib?
edited by: Edchris177, Feb 01, 2010 - 02:48 PM
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Posted: Feb 01, 2010 - 03:46 PM
Ed,
I am just converting my setup to a roller furler. Basically you need the following:
1. Roller Drum this attaches between your 2 bridle wires and forestay.
2. High Load Swivel This attaches at the top of your forestay.
3. New forestay shortened to make up for the extra lenght that the drum and swivel take up (usually about 3.5").
4. Pigtail with a bullet block on it that attaches to the swivel for your jib halyard to go through (either wire or line depending on you halyard).
5. Cam cleat that you will mount on your front beam for the furling line.
6. V cleat to mount on your 10 hole forestay adjuster to downhaul your halyard with.
That should do it. Also if you have a wind indicator on teh forestay you can get a bracket for that so it doesn't spin with the jib.
Look at this link: http://home.comcast.net/~ragenpl/nacra/nacra_roller_furling_1.htm
This is similar to my setup except he has a 3:1 downhaul on the jib. It's about what you want for your boat.
D.
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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Feb 01, 2010 - 04:30 PM
OK, it's not for sale ///
edited by: KennyB, Feb 01, 2010 - 05:33 PM
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Kenny Boudreaux
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Posted: Feb 01, 2010 - 04:43 PM
Only if you use a Hobie18 style furler.. the other type doesnt use an ajuster :) -
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Posted: Feb 01, 2010 - 04:51 PM
This (pic from Dave's link above) is hardware overkill... you do not need all this hardware...
I use a turnbuckle (and thats a hobie style) but... I use no shackles.. i use i 4mm dynema (with cover) to secure my forstay (to tie around the ring) and 2mm dynema (with jacket) that both ties the tack to the ring, and also works as my downhaul.
This (above) can all be achieved with 1 shackle (above the pin) for a tack/downhaul
- my pleasure
You may need a new forstay.. depends on which style drum you get (i think). the hobie style can get a fitting on the end. but the turnstyle one requires a thimble and i dont know if you have enough on the old one to add it... not sure..
I do on my mystere
The tack of the jib is attached to the furler.. so the entire sail spins with the stay.. it doesnt matter if there is a little play (non exact twist)
edited by: andrewscott, Feb 01, 2010 - 04:58 PM -
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Posted: Feb 01, 2010 - 05:54 PM
Yeah, a 3:1 downhaul on a jib is a little overkill. You don't want more tension on the jib than the forestay or you could have problems. You can probably just go with the v cleat as shown above if you don't want to tie and untie the halyard each time. That's a pretty simple setup.
Chances are you will need a new forestay, the rule of thumb is that you lose a minimum of 6" when you remove an existing fitting and replace it with a nicopress and thimble. That is too much loss for the furling rig. The good news is that you can get them to add a 6" pigtail at the top with a block swaged in for your halyard and you avoid some complexity and setup.
If you have battens in your jib (mine had little mini ones) you will likely have to remove them. No big deal they don't really do much for the jib shape anyway.
D.
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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Feb 01, 2010 - 10:29 PM
Several quick points to ponder.
Harken drums and swivels are 2.5 inches each, thats 5 inches, plus a way to connect to the hound shackle, that's good for 2 inches. You should order a new forestay when you convert. If your jib has battens, simply remove them or have pocket sewn on for furling. 3:1 downhaul on the jib is good, you want more load to get good sail shape. It is ok if the forestay goes slack. The tack of the jib in the picture is attached to the drum off center. Not good. The shackle for the tack should be attached to the chain plate. Do the furler right the first time and save yourself a lot of headaches and added expenses.
Carry on gentlemen . . .
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Philip
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Posted: Feb 01, 2010 - 11:07 PM
Philip,
You are correct the harken Drum is 2.5 inches. I'm actually using a Hobie Style drum that uses and adjuster and only raises the attachment point about 1 inch. It also shortens the bridles by 1.5". You don't have to shorten the bridles (just take an extra 1" or so off of the forestay) but I did because I was replacing them anyway.
I guess the bottom line is to get the hardware first and then a new forestay, or order the kit from Murray's that already takes the measurements into account.
I read a few places that you don't wan't the forestay to go slack. The forces are much higher on the forestay than what the jib is supposed to take, that being said you can likely get away with it as long as your jib is in good shape there are a few factors of safety in there.
I didn't see anything wrong with the way the jib was attached. How else could you do it? That is the normal way a jib is attached on the older Nacras by the by.
D.
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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
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Posted: Feb 01, 2010 - 11:53 PM
On a furling drum? Not hardly, there is is nothing normal about that set up.
As stated before . . .
Not to the outside of the cast alloy tang.
His setup in the picture is craptastic. As Andrew stated, the whole thing can be done with ONE shackle.
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Posted: Feb 02, 2010 - 08:50 AM
Thank you for the replies.
MUMMP, (looking at the picture),are you saying the shackle that is attached to the tack should be attached where the Harken block is? Toss that block, & use one up near the top, where the swivel is. The lower shackle would secure the tack, then all you need is a halyard that runs through a small block at the top (& back down to the cleat shown in the picture)to raise/tension the jib.
I'm thinking if setup that way, you leave the forestay rigged, & by uncleating the purple line in the picture you could drop the jib, unzip it & remove it if you were leaving the boat sit for a week or so.
Andrew, or MUMMP, do you have a close up picture of your setup.
Please don't misconstrue my post as an argument against what you do. The only furler I have seen was on a Hobie Bravo, I really am ignorant of the details. If I do it I want it done right, & the simpler the better. The picture of the Nacra rig in Murrays is pretty bad.
I can't remember exactly what the adjuster on my forestay looks like, I THINK it might be a 10 holer, will look this Fri when I drop by the cottage.(Damn, I'm glad I took everything apart & stored it inside)
Plus I just got in from Santiago, Chile yesterday. The 32C sunshine was nice,
the being up 27 hours with 3 hours bunktime in the attic of the B777 not so nice. It rather reduces the processing power of my older 386 brain 
edited by: Edchris177, Feb 02, 2010 - 08:15 AM
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Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
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Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
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Posted: Feb 02, 2010 - 09:46 AM
HOW DARE YOU QUESTION ME!~~~~ hahah just kidding. i dont see any close ups of my set up.. but here are a few others...
you can see the white line is my forestay (with white line attached) and the blue is my tack (jib) and halyard/downhaul (run 3 to 1 through the ring / jib (sisterclip / thimble)
I use a sisterclip system to remove the extra 25' of jib halyard/downhaul)
Here my friend is rigging his the same exact way...
edited by: andrewscott, Feb 02, 2010 - 09:51 AM -
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Posted: Feb 02, 2010 - 10:04 AM
Yes.
yes
There is no need for either a small block at the top, nor cleat.. run the line through the thimble of the jib halyard and back down to the same tack shackle. you dont need a cleat on that rig.. simple secure the jib halyard / downhaul with a rolling hitch (or your knot of choice, that will come out after sailing)... the drawback is you can't adjust this on the fly... but very few can. The N20 has a system (and maybe others) that allow you to run the downhaul back to the beam for adjustment..
PS this might be rigged just for "show" but it looks to me he is using a single pin (with ringding 1/2 off) to hold his forestay to the chainplate adjuster.. i would recomend a shackle in that spot.. if that ringding slips through that thimble... you lose your mast :)
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Posted: Feb 02, 2010 - 10:06 AM
Thank you, that makes much more sense, you don't really need the blocks, I expect HM line would be plenty slippery thru that ring. I was wondering what you did with all that line on a 3:1, sister clip makes sense.
That would save a few $$, as you only need the the roller, swivel,ring,new forestay, & some line.
What is the advantage to using the Harken swivel ($135) as opposed to the Ronstan eye/jaw ($71)shown here:
http://www.murrays.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=MS&Product_Code=21-078B&Category_Code=
other than you would need a fork end at one spot of your rigging?
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Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
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Posted: Feb 02, 2010 - 10:21 AM
The difference makes no sense but is true (as far as i can tell)
even though the ronstan is rated at 300% stronger, i have seen them fail, and NEVER the harken. I think this is due to the fact the ronstan is plastic lined and doesnt handle heat/sand. my friend demasted 2x while furling (or unfurling) with a ronstan on his mystere. both times his top furler wouldnt turn and caused his pigtail to twist and break...
PS the ronstan bottoms are also plastic parts (or delron or similar) and when they wear down.. they are done (unless you fabricate some solution) the Haken drum can be taken apart and all the delron (or torlon) bearings replaced. I did mine a month ago :) and upgraded to the torlin bearings -
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Posted: Feb 02, 2010 - 10:53 AM
Very good to know.
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Rob
OKC
Pile of Nacra parts..
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Posted: Feb 02, 2010 - 11:39 AM
The new harken and the older hobie style have the drum under the bridles. Out of the way and easier to use. There is one for sale here in the classifieds. -
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Posted: Feb 02, 2010 - 12:04 PM
Boy, some things are hard to explain in writing. I'll have to add "How to rig a jib furler on a non-furling beachcat" to the list of help pages I'd like to have.
Anyone who can do technical drawings please contact me, I think it in both this case and "how to rig a spin snuffer" a good labeled drawing would be better.
"A drawing is worth a thousand pictures" sometimes)
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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
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Posted: Feb 02, 2010 - 12:40 PM
Hows this?
edited by: andrewscott, Feb 02, 2010 - 12:47 PM
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