What's involved to convert to roller furling?
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Posted: Feb 02, 2010 - 01:28 PM
Yep, that pretty much covers it. You currently should have a wire jib halyard with a wire turning block at the top of your forestay. Nothing changes, you still use your existing halyard.
Here is a simple way to rig. The end of the wire halyard has a thimble on it. You usually attach your pigtail to that. Some people use sister clips, I find them a waste as they are not needed (something else to loose.) Anyway, when you pull up the jib you will want a short piece of small quality line 1/8" or so. This will act to hold up the jib and function as downhaul.
On to the furling drum. On top of the furling drum attached a 7 hole or 10 hole adjuster chain plate. Your forestay will attach to the chain plate with a clevis pin. Attach the jib tack to the chainplate between the clevis pin and the furling drum with a 1/4" shackle.
Back to the short halyard pigtail. It is tied off to the thimble on the end of your wire halyard. Take the end of the pigtail, run it through the round part of the 1/4" shackle (that is attached to the jib tack), run it back up to the wire halyard thimble, then back down to the chainplate and tie it off with the tension you want. This gives you 3:1 downhaul, it is clean, it is simple, and the whole unit will "furl" very nicely. No turning blocks, no jam cleats, no c.r.a.p., just simple. There are copious ways to tie it off the line, what ever works for you. . .
http://www.thebeachcats.c…380&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
edited by: mummp, Feb 02, 2010 - 12:32 PM
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Philip
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Posted: Feb 02, 2010 - 07:38 PM
Thanks. I went through your album this afternoon, looking for pictures that showed a furling system. I have the picture you posted saved to my MISC CAT C.RAP folder. By expanding that one, & several others I have been able to answer quite few questions. Pictures that are saved as multi-megabit files are especially useful for this.
In your picture, I take it the black line at the very luff is the forestay, & the blue line that passes twice through the grommet is the halyard/downhaul?
The white line from the drum towars the lower left is the furling line, what are the thin lines that appear just above the drum, just retaining wire for the clevis pins?
that does seem the elegant, & cheapest way to rig it. If you have a good picture of the top end, that would also be greatly appreciated. I THINK I understand what you have described, I'm just conditioned in my business to never go with what you THINK might work!
edited by: Edchris177, Feb 02, 2010 - 06:39 PM
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Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
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Posted: Feb 02, 2010 - 07:42 PM
Damon, I'll take pictures, write it up & post the project,with credits where due. Probable won't happen til spring.
Tek nik cal dro ings? Not me, I was hukt on foniks, wurkd 4me, I gratu8ed!
P.S. In my humble opinion we shouldn't have to edit C.R.A.P.
It fits better than "feces file"
edited by: Edchris177, Feb 02, 2010 - 06:45 PM
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Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
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Posted: Feb 02, 2010 - 08:36 PM
Yes, you are correct on all the lines. One detail though, the blue line goes through the shackle, not the grommet. As for your comment, elegant and cheap, that it is. I'm not about cheap, just about what works good. Give me a few hours and I will get the picture of the upper swivel. It's been a craptastic day here. I second the censorship on c.r.a.p., but I do value Damon's cause. What about it Damon?
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Philip
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Posted: Feb 02, 2010 - 09:32 PM
I am pretty sure this is the same Harken hardware sold at murrayshttp://www.murrays.com/mm…de=C-MO-RF&Store_Code=MS in a kit with both pieces for a lot less at http://www.mauriprosailin…tegory_Code=SMALLBOATFUR
It's even less I think than the used pair for sale in the classifieds here. http://www.thebeachcats.c…ifieds/showcat.php?cat=4
On further inspection that one may not be the High Load one but here is the high load for not much more at http://www.pyacht.com/harken-furling-sb.htm
edited by: Quarath, Feb 02, 2010 - 07:43 PM
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Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
1982 Prindle 18
1986 Hobie 17
1982 Prindle 16
1980 Prindle 16(mostly)
1976 Prindle 16(mostly)
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook.
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Posted: Feb 02, 2010 - 10:04 PM
Yeah thanks Quarath. I found another place also that has them brand new for $20 more than the used ones on sale.
Another question for MUMMP. I had read somwhere during this research that you can run out of room, due the large jib. What is the reason for using a 10 hole chainplate? It looks like you have 5-6 holes below the jib.
Is there anything to be gained by using a really short one, or do you need the length because a higher jib means easier tacking (less likely to hang up on beam), more adjustment room if/when things stretch, all/none of the above.
Thanks in advance for the extra pics when they come, I have quite a few from various boats saved in a folder. As stated they make a great resource for doing research when you don't have a boat in front of you & have never had the one you own rigged! I have several from your gallery, Airbornes, Andrews, along with others. It is not as good as hands on, but I have learned a great deal just following discussions, along with looking at blowups of high res pictures.
On a lighter note:
You think you have lived to be 80 and know who you are, then along comes someone and blows it all to pieces!
An old Marine Pilot sat down at the Starbucks, still wearing his old USMC flight suit and leather jacket and ordered a cup of coffee.
As he sat sipping his coffee, a young woman sat down next to him. She turned to the pilot and asked, 'Are you a real pilot?'
He replied, 'Well, I've spent my whole life flying planes, first Stearmans, then the early Grummans... flew a Wildcat and Corsair in WWII, and later in the Korean conflict, Banshees and Cougars. I've taught more than 260 people to fly and given rides to hundreds, so I guess I am a pilot, and you, what are you?
She said, 'I'm a l.e.s.bian. I spend my whole day thinking about naked women.. As soon as I get up in the morning, I think about naked women. When I shower, I think about naked women. When I watch TV, I think about naked women. It seems everything makes me think of naked women.'
The two sat sipping in silence.
A little while later, a young man sat down on the other side of the old pilot and asked: "are you a real pilot?"
He replied, 'I always thought I was, but I just found out I'm a l.e.s.bian.'
edited by: Edchris177, Feb 02, 2010 - 09:05 PM
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Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
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Posted: Feb 02, 2010 - 10:51 PM
That is a really old picture so don't get caught up in the fine tuning of the moment. I now put the shackle on the hole closest to the furling drum. That is the sweet spot for the way I have the rig tuned. The purpose of the 10 hole adjuster is to give you a range of tuning, including rig tension and mast rake. There is nothing to be gained by using a short one. On the N20 I use 2 10 hole adjusters. We tune with quite a bit of mast rake and you need the 2 adjusters to reach the forestay. Back to your comment, the jib being higher does not make it easier to tack and has no effect of hanging up.
Can you run out of room? Yes you can, but usually something is improperly rigged. Don't be afraid to rake the mast back.
I can't find a picture but here's the skinny. From the forestay up is the swivel, on top of the swivel I use a part #56-9649 mast tang plate (2" hole to hole). It is a SS plate with two holes in it, one hole is round and the other is oblong or oval. This allow it to fit over the 5/16" rigging shackle, which is between the two shrouds. Again, very clean setup, and prevents alot of problems when trying to piece together a bunch of odd ball parts.
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Philip
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Posted: Feb 03, 2010 - 09:09 AM
BTW Philip, i apologize for answer question(s) directed to you...
edited by: andrewscott, Feb 03, 2010 - 10:22 AM -
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Posted: Feb 03, 2010 - 09:26 AM
All is good Andrew, I'll chime in only if you give stupid advise, unless of course, it is deserved. :)
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Philip
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Posted: Feb 03, 2010 - 09:43 AM
hmmmmm in reviewing my older posts, often you chime in afterwords.... hmmmmmmmmm :) -
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Posted: Feb 03, 2010 - 09:47 AM
Should be pointed out these are NOT the hobie style systems (they have a ring, not the chainplate adapter
Also i THINK the only difference between the high and low load are the bearing. I upgraded to the tourlon (i know i have spelled it differently every time) when i replaced my bearings (parts were $14 if i recall)
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Posted: Feb 03, 2010 - 11:35 AM
Can you do this with the Zippered Jib style on the P18 or do you need something different?
Also I really don't like the standard turnbuckle on the P18. It's really kind of a pain to tighten and loosen there is nothing to grip to do this by hand you have to have something small to put through the hole in the center and a crescent wrench or something to keep the cable form turning while I do it.
When I get to the point of putting a furler on mine I'd like to maybe look at different turnbuckle options but then I will definatly have to have a custom forstay. I kinda like the the simplicity in your Portuguese turnbuckle but at the same time I am thinking dang can I really trust that thing. I think you have covered it before but what line do you use and is there a good description on how to use it properly anywhere. Also how often do you have to replace it. I don't sail nearly as much as you do but it is still good to know. It be interested in converting to other easier setups as well.
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Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
1982 Prindle 18
1986 Hobie 17
1982 Prindle 16
1980 Prindle 16(mostly)
1976 Prindle 16(mostly)
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook.
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Posted: Feb 03, 2010 - 11:49 AM
great thread! this is one for the help section for shure. my only advise here is when you assemble and rig it for the first time this season, do it with the original rig first. you will definitely need help stepping the mast and etc. so you will have crew available to help with those "OH S#*T" moments. i'd probably sail her a few times also to tune rudders and adjust mast rake etc.(tune 'er in good) before i wacked anything so you know how its supposed to be then engineer it. first sunny warm day this season jump on it ! then fix what needs it on a crappy day! you will probably end up fixing stuff you never thought about along the way to keep you busy enough. GO SAINTS!!! bill.
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bill harris
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Posted: Feb 03, 2010 - 11:54 AM
- yes, if you plan to remove the jib after use you need a zipper (or at least your life will be much easier with one).
hole in the center??? cable twists when???
Yes, you have to know how to tie it off correctly, and you must use good line, or you risk dropping your mast, but we are also trusting a little clevis pin and ring ding to hold up our rig. Also a point of note and trust is with the Hobie style adjuster you can't really get your rigging all that tight (without a wench or system added to the mix) and have to then tighten your rig by putting on a harness (or having crew pull on the trap wires) and tightening your side stay chain plates.
I have used regular xls to tie my forestay to turnbuckle. i currently use 4mm dynema with a 5mm cover (cover there to prevent slippage). I use enough to create a 6-1 ratio (three full wraps) and i tighten the crud out of that on heavy air days, and a little less for light air.
edited by: andrewscott, Feb 03, 2010 - 11:56 AM -
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Posted: Feb 03, 2010 - 05:49 PM
This is the stle of turnbuckle on a Prindle. Instead of a clevis pin like pictured though you use a shackle through the bridles. You can see the small hole in the center of it. There is enough tension sometimes that it is hard to turn without by hand without the cable attached to the top trying to turn with it. This makes it tighten in more on the bottom than the top so the overall length's of the threaded bolts going into it are uneven. Anyway it is slightly flattened above the upper lock nut so you can put a crescent wrench around it to keep this from happening but there is nothing flattened on the center of the turnbuckle to allow you to use a wrench to turn that so if you are unable to turn it by hand then you need some small long screwdriver or something that will fit through the tiny hole to make it easier to turn.
edited by: Quarath, Feb 03, 2010 - 03:50 PM
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Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
1982 Prindle 18
1986 Hobie 17
1982 Prindle 16
1980 Prindle 16(mostly)
1976 Prindle 16(mostly)
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook.
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Posted: Feb 03, 2010 - 07:02 PM
I switched my P18 to this style, which I found much easier to use.
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Rob
OKC
Pile of Nacra parts..
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Posted: Feb 03, 2010 - 08:16 PM
[quote=andrewscott]
Andrew, I've been looking for one of those to tighten my rig for years. No success, but then you can probably tell why. :)
I have been using a Sta/Master turnbuckle and fint it works very well. I'm switching to a standard 10 hole for my roller furler though, because I want to mount a fiddle block on it for a 3:1 downhaul (I know, I know).
D.
edited by: Wolfman, Feb 03, 2010 - 07:17 PM
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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
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Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Feb 03, 2010 - 10:03 PM
Oh yea.... i gotcha.. i now recall someone rigging their cat like that.
Thanks.. yea, i have no input for that system -
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Posted: Feb 03, 2010 - 10:04 PM
Yea, good ones are hard to find :) and keep
:)
edited by: andrewscott, Feb 03, 2010 - 10:05 PM -
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Posted: Feb 04, 2010 - 01:59 PM
I could probably live with that one at least I can get a grip or a wench on it and it's cotter pined it so it can't accidentally be turned to far out causing the mast to fall. I'd just have to have to custom order forestay with a the different style.
Anyone here ever bought the prindle furler kit from murrays http://www.murrays.com/mm…de=C-MO-RF&Store_Code=MS. I assume that the pigtail section at the top has been shortened to make up for the difference with the furler hardware and the actual forstay is the same length?
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Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
1982 Prindle 18
1986 Hobie 17
1982 Prindle 16
1980 Prindle 16(mostly)
1976 Prindle 16(mostly)
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook.
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