Fore or aft, cargo tramp feasability
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Posted: Feb 27, 2010 - 10:33 PM
Seems like I saw a foreward cargo tramp on someone's cat. I scored the material from an old backyard trampoline and will hijack the old ladies singer. I don't like tying stuff up behind the mast as it always seems to be in the way. Any ideas or previous experience with this will be appreciated. I have a Prindle 18, and what gave me this idea is two 1/8" holes on the outside of each hull both forward and aft of the tramp. -
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Posted: Feb 28, 2010 - 08:50 AM
I have seen a forward tramp installed on a P-18 and the person sailed it for years that way. Mostly so girls could ride up front and sun tan and he could enjoy the view. He drilled a series of holes on the inside lip of the deck and laced a tramp. Other boats also have factory front tramps. G-Cats, Hobie Getaways and some Super Cat 20's and all sem to work just fine. The 2 holes you mentioned are probably there for trap shock cords, when I raced P-16's we did that and ran the shock cord under the lip of the deck similar to the way Hobie 18's do thiers, except we ran both skipper and crew to the back instead of one to the front and the other to the rear. -
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Posted: Feb 28, 2010 - 08:53 AM
Check the current ad listing a G-Cat 5.7 for sail on this site and you can see how they have a front trap. It may give you some ideas. -
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Posted: Feb 28, 2010 - 09:13 AM
i looked at a p-16 this summer for a friend, it had a homemade tramp installed on the bows. they had drilled several holes throught the lips of the hulls to attach it. i guess the inward pressure of the tramp caused the hulls to "toe" in causing the biggest de-lam i have ever seen! on the outside of the hulls by the forward cross beam the glass and gelcoat were flopping real bad(6 or 8 sq.feet each side). so that is my experience with seeing that. in the cat for sale section here there is a nacra 5.0 with a front tramp on it, they installed an aluminum brace across the bows to support and keep bows apart. now a short tramp(2' or so) may not tweek the hulls together if just for some light cargo but if you want if big enough to hold people or heavy cargo, i would use a brace like on that nacra. when i looked at the boat, the tramp had been removed, my guess is that you didn't notice the de-lam until the tramp was removed due to the tension the tramp keept on the hulls. after seeing that, i would go with a brace if i were to instal tramp forward.
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bill harris
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prindle 16- "BLUE RIBBON"
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Posted: Feb 28, 2010 - 11:28 AM
Thanks for the input. The two holes forward in each of my hulls are on the outside lip and are about 10 inches apart just forward of the forward cross beam. I guess they could be for trap lines, but the stock set up with bungees under the tramp works good as is. I'll check out those boats you mentioned. Wasn't really planning on passengers, but the idea of suntanning women is intriqueing.
Curt -
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Posted: Mar 01, 2010 - 12:31 PM
i have a custom forward tramp. i had access to my hulls via ports on each bow. i placed a small eyestrap with backing plate (circled in blue) in each hull as a tie down point, and secure the tramp (via grommet holes) to the front bar. PS this will not support crew... i have an anchor bag built in, a righting bag storage (underneath), cooler and radio ontop...
second custom tramp (purchased from sunrise yacht)
Here is an entire thread i posted on my tramp and my friends P18 tramp
http://www.thebeachcats.c…iewtopic-topic-2168.html -
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Posted: Mar 01, 2010 - 03:13 PM
How does the front tramps handle when you are sailing in waves in the 3 foot range? Do they get hit by the waves in a similar fashion to how the main tramp gets hit? Does it get hit more then the main tramp since it is forward of the mast? I like the idea of extra storage out of the way of the the mast and lines, but also wonder about the ability of the tramp to become a water scoop. But maybe it is better then the snuffer tube so no need to worry.
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Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
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Posted: Mar 01, 2010 - 03:29 PM
Hey Andrew, for a minute there I thought that was snow in the background...HA! ...but that was just because my eyeballs were dizzy with all those sheets and lines going on with your cat, that's just waaaaay too busy for a recreational sailor....don'tyathink?.....
Turbo -
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Posted: Mar 01, 2010 - 05:24 PM
WHAT DO YOU MEAN????
HAHA (thats not my mess)..
YES i have alot of control lines.. that picture (mine, not the one directly above) makes it look a little worse than it is rigged.. but not by much.
Line management is important on a race boat. i have removed some controls to avoid clutter (centerboard up/down controls, barber hauler) at times but find myself missing them when i want to do a broad reach or similar.
It is true i am a cruiser, not a racer... but i always want to beat everybody everywhere (never happens as i sail with VERY experienced and fast sailors)...
This pic above was PRE spinnaker, so now i have 2 more lines on deck. :)
But when i look at pics of my H18.. i miss its simplicity (but wouldnt trade my cat for all the tea in teaville)
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Posted: Mar 01, 2010 - 05:31 PM
mystere's have an enormous amount of freeboard (volume) and love to be driven hard. i can sail with both bows under, up to the front beam before i pop up (rudders in the air), come to a stop, and bobble backwards. It takes skill to (or seriously poor skill) to actually pitchpole...
sooooo, my front tramp has never been an issue. if i do stuff it up to the beam.. my front tramp sits above my spin pole so it is out of the way.. water would flow over the beam,under the tramp.
There are 2 other mystere's with custom tramps, but they hang down under the pole, and i have been on them when a wave will cause the cooler or anchor to get knocked around (if not off).
I did have a VERY BAD day once, in the gulf... 2 hours in 4-5' waves and they hit so frequently that you are still going down one wave when you dive through the second one. My spin bag would fill with water.. flex my pole down and then shoot it 10' in the air.. only to pee down on me (for hours). my bag was engorged (correct term) and was squirting water out of 10000 little holes i never knew i had... as i said.. it was a bad day. I now keep my snuffer as high as possible, and stay out of the gulf in those conditions. -
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Posted: Mar 01, 2010 - 07:57 PM
I sail a G-cat with a front tramp... will not buy a cat without one. I have been in four foot seas without a problem. Some 20 knot winds do want to raise the bows during turns but have never blown me over backwards, and I sail alone. The front tramp may be responsible for encouraging flips on reaches but usually it has been my fault in not minding my business.
The front tramp is nice to have to get to the Harken and forestay. It is also nice to use as a camp tramp too. Once you have a nice clean installed forward tramp, you will wonder why there are so many without them. -
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Posted: Mar 02, 2010 - 03:03 PM
Andy that's hilarious that your used wildman's cat as an example of extreme tramp spaghetti vomit. I'm linking this thread for him.
edited by: Headhunter, Mar 02, 2010 - 08:04 PM -
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Posted: Mar 03, 2010 - 07:14 PM
I have a P18 and I put on a small front cargo net and it was great. I used a hammock cut to the size needed. I drilled small holes on the inside lip of the hull and threaded it similar to the way the tramp is threaded.
Then to keep it out of the waves I used bunge from under the net to the forestay and it worked great. almost no drag in the waves.
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Posted: Mar 07, 2010 - 01:53 PM
Front tramps look like they definitely have the utility you guys are looking for. What's the windage like on them? They say the windage on a snuffer setup can jeopardize boat speed upwind by as much as 10%. Any thoughts on the front tramp's windage upwind? I guess it doesn't matter if your recreationally sailing, but just a thought. -
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Posted: Mar 08, 2010 - 09:08 AM
i doubt there's much windage, but as you said... if not racing .. who cares... and i can take mine off if i wanted to as it is only secured with a few lines -
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Posted: Mar 08, 2010 - 11:59 AM
Netting vs Mesh. Netting will have no effect on wind streams... mesh may slow a boat down on a close hall, but I have not seemed to notice it. At 20+ winds and the mesh wet and the normal wave heights associated with that wind, the bow wants to rise some as you pass through the eye. Not enough to cause a control concern.
I have sailed without them... I much prefer them just because they allow more use of the vessel. Unless you are a speed freak I doubt you will notice any loss. My GPS indicates I get upwards to 20 out of a 15 wind. good enough for this sailor.
