Hi Gang,
I was thinking about renting my Florida home and all my toys for a sailing, kayaking vacation and want to get some input. The idea is to offer a ?service? where I would transport my Catamaran(s) to some of the best beaches in the Tampa Bay area and you simply play all day. I want to be kind of a ?Tour Guide? with toys. Practically no one rents Catamarans here anymore, and absolutely no one rents a go fast 18 square like mine. Check it out in the for sale postings. If this idea works, I won?t have to sell her! So give me your ideas and comments. How could I make this a real business?
FLA. Vacation idea
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Posted: Apr 20, 2010 - 10:32 AM
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Posted: Apr 20, 2010 - 10:49 AM
They used to rent them locally (g-cats, mystere 5.0's, etc), the reasons they stopped were:
1. liability
2. more often then not, renters got in trouble and needed to "be rescued" (esp with daily afternoon thunderstorms in the summer)
3. not profitable
Your personal liability and insurance would be rather substantial to rent out high performance cats.
renting a home with this equipment could be different but i would require releases from any renters.
How will you determine if someone is qualified to rent such a vessel?
If you get on the boat and sail with them at all... you are required to have a Skippers 6-pack license (about $1k with the courses and test)...
also you can't do it at the Dunedin causeway as Sail Honeymoon has the exclusive rights and he protects his exclusive rights (as he should, this is his livelihood)
edited by: andrewscott, Apr 20, 2010 - 10:54 AM -
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Posted: Apr 20, 2010 - 07:47 PM
please explain "exclusive rights" and how does one get them.
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Philip
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Posted: Apr 21, 2010 - 10:13 AM
I was involved last year, working with the Dunedin City Lawyers, City Council and the Parks Dept. on new overnight parking rules and learned a good deal about the "causeway politics" and regulations.
There is only 1 person with rights (permission and license) to operate a business on the dunedin causeway and that is Glenn from Sailhoneymoon.
He is the owner/operator of the trimaran and kayak rentals and concession stand. He leases his space from the town/county (i believe). This is not a commercially zoned area and he has exclusive rights to conduct business there.
How does one get them? well 15 or 20 years ago (or whenever they started) someone requested it from the township of dunedin (and the state park management) and was granted sole permission to sell goods and services on the causeway.
I know of 2 or 3 previous owners went belly-up and Glenn has been the only one able to turn a profit (from what i understand).
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Posted: Apr 21, 2010 - 10:36 AM
Thank goodness we live in the good ole USA where no city government can enforce a law which gives a ?monopoly? to one for profit business. Imagine the city of Dunedin telling McDonalds that they can?t open a store next door to Burger King because BK was here first. This is a free market and the city of Dunedin has opened themselves up for a law suit they can win. Glenn may have the only permit right now but only because I haven?t decided to do business there. YET. Plenty of smart guys out there could figure a way to make a profit in that business. Glenn can stamp his feet and draw a line in the sand all he wants. The fact is, anyone who applies for a permit with the necessary insurance and wherewithal must be allowed to do so under ?federal law?. If the city of Dunedin thinks they can subvert the US constitution with a local ordinance, I?m sure Fox News would love to make a stink about that.
Tell Glenn he has ?the only permit right now? but he does NOT have ?exclusive rights?.
edited by: catman1122, Apr 21, 2010 - 09:37 AM -
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Posted: Apr 21, 2010 - 11:33 AM
You asked for input and when you got it.. you turning into a ACLU lawyer
I will let you tell Glenn, and the city and county and State that you plan to sue them for "oppressing your constitutional rights".
Please refer me to what part of the US constitution give you power over local/county/state zoning regulations? or is there a section on renting catamarans i missed?
I am no lawyer but...
The city/county/state has all the rights it needs to restrict business on public beaches and who gets the permits to conduct business. Ask the guys who have the contract to ferry people to Caladisi Island. Do you think you can just pull up with your own ferry and start taking over that business as well? Or sue them to let you?
The City / state/ county has told 1000000000's of business "NO you can not conduct business "here" (or there or anywhere they want). It's called zoning and the govt wins. If you don't think they have the power to deny permission and permits... well you are wrong
Heck.. they can kick you OUT OF YOUR HOUSE and tell you they want/need the land for a public needs(Eminent domain), you think you can litigate your way into winning that too?
They rent a few sq feet of space on the causeway, and if you think you and your lawyers (and bank account) can "win a battle" with the state / county / local township that governs it.. have a good time. But i bet no lawyer will take this one on "contingency payment"
AND If you stir things up enough.. they will close down the causeway to all sailors... making you "not so well liked" by the 100's of sailors who have been using the causeway as the ONLY BEACH that allows sailboats to launch from it in Pinellas county (and one of only a few in the entire gulf coast)for the past 20 or 30 years.
Also: Don't think i am speaking for Glenn. Hell i dont even know his last name. So to say he is "Stomping his feet and drawing a line..." your making some presumptions there.
edited by: andrewscott, Apr 21, 2010 - 11:34 AM -
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Posted: Apr 21, 2010 - 12:14 PM
I'm sure you can place an open bid...in about 15 years when the contract is up. Would love an update to this post in 2025.
I'm certain you'll make a good case for your business with vast experience in that vertical market, a solid history of profitable, good relations with another municipality, your Captain's license, and ease of getting boater rental liability insurance in the state of Florida (hope you're banging the Chairman of the Lloyds of London).
Till then, please let me know what drugs you're on because the occasional ACID flashback just isn't doing it for me anymore.
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Posted: Apr 21, 2010 - 05:28 PM
This is just getting to be funny now. Andrew, you?re right about one thing. You're no lawyer. There is a big difference between zoning issues and what's going on in Dunedin. As for you telling the City I'm gonna sue, I've said all I need to say to the city planners, lawyer and Glenn the day I met with them half a year ago. You?re not privy to all the info and apparently only get your info from Glenn. Let me back up for just one moment and remind you that Dunedin is 60 miles away from where I plan to do my proposed business and where I already have an association with an insurance co, city and County. However, if I set my sights on Dunedin one day that city ordinance will not hold up. Caladesi Island is another matter. That?s a State park and preserve thus governed by a whole other set of rules of which I am aware. Dunedin Causeway is a man made roadway and as long as I can prove that I do no more damage than Glenn, the City would be hard presses to stop me. It?s a good argument for the courts but you and I should simply agree to disagree here on this site. And as for my experience, in my 37 years of business I've been up against bigger cities than Dunedin. -
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Posted: Apr 21, 2010 - 05:42 PM
It sounds like all you sailors over on the West coast of Florida should move to Delray Beach. We have none of the problems that you have. Mast Up Storage $200 per year, on shore winds, clean water, and the city likes us. -
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Posted: Apr 21, 2010 - 05:49 PM
I am not privy to any info. I also don't know if its a city ordnance, county, state or voodoo what gives him permission to rent boats there.
I barely know Glenn and am nothing more than a patron of his hot dog stand.
and for what it's worth, it was explained to me (when i was involved in the parking issues) that the causeway is co-governed by city county and state funds and agencies. -
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Posted: Apr 21, 2010 - 06:15 PM
catman1122,
I think this thread got off track because in your original post you didn't make it clear that you have apparently already taken care of "making it a real business" with the things you mention in subsequent posts.
So the focus was not on whether sailors would like to be able to rent a house with a catamaran included (I assure you they would, especially Yankees in the winter), but instead on your business plan.
You are this far along, why not use your real name, fill out your profile, and give the actual location of the house? If your location is "60 miles away", why are we debating sailing conditions on the Dunedin Causeway?
Besides, there is only one expert on the Causeway, and that is me, since I sailed there once in 1993.
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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN
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Posted: Apr 21, 2010 - 08:59 PM
I'm loving this. I call BS on exclusive rights and I get a thrill out of seeing Andrew get his hackles up.
Carry on Gentlemen!
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Philip
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Posted: Apr 21, 2010 - 09:04 PM
i would give a toe for $200 mast up.. (not mine of course) -
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Posted: Apr 21, 2010 - 09:14 PM
I didn't want to prolong this thread, but i just saw this and i think you (Catman1122 ) misunderstood what i said:
"I will let you tell Glenn, and the city and county and State that you plan to sue them for "oppressing your constitutional rights"."
I have no interest in telling anyone anything...
the reason i said that was your last comment to me was "Tell Glenn he has ?the only permit right now? but he does NOT have ?exclusive rights?" ... i was sayin.. no... i dont speak for other people.
edited by: andrewscott, Apr 21, 2010 - 09:14 PM
