I know i'll have to get some photos for this thread but i'll try to explain the problem first.
I recently bought a Trac 18 that was sailed for 16 yrs but the same person. Lots of light use but.... There are a few modifications the guy made for ease of use.
The Main thing i see wrong and want to fix is with the Mainsail Halyard. The Halyard use to be run through the mast. (which is common to my knowledge.) The Guy Removed the Lock at the top of the mast, Removed the halyard from the inside of the mast and added a cleat on the side of the mast to cleat the line to... It reminds me of a a flagpole now with the way the halyard is tied. Its just a continuous loop with a hook on it.
The issue I'm having is that the Halyard is stretching, the sail seems to be dropping out of the mast about 6 to 8 inches and i think its due to the halyard line stretching.
It's also a Boomless setup.
Any Ideas how to put the Halyard back into the mast and how I would get some sort of lock in place so i don't get that stretch.
Hope someone understands the issue i'm having.
Thanks
My Mainsail Halyard was modified - need advice.
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Posted: Jun 23, 2010 - 11:12 PM
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Posted: Jun 24, 2010 - 12:23 PM
Here are Images of the Top of the mast, THe bottom of the mast and the Cleats for the Main and Jib.
This might make more sense now.
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Posted: Jun 24, 2010 - 03:46 PM
OK so let me get this straight. There is no halyard hook at the top it is just a loop of line that you use to raise the sail and it cleats at the bottom?
If this is the case there are a couple of possiblities that I can think of, none of which involve putting the halyard back into the mast (not sure how that would work).
Probably the best way is ti reuse the pulley at the top and rivet a halyard hook tang to the top of the mast like this one here:
http://www.murrays.com/mm…_Code=C-PF&Store_Code=MS
Then you can use a halyard ring like this:
http://www.murrays.com/mm…e=01-4216&Category_Code=
attached to the top of your sail
and some line to raise your sail and hook it at the top for a positive connection.
The second option would be to replace your existing halyard with a very-low-stretch line like a dyneema double braid and keep the existing system cleated at the bottom. This is a slightly cheaper easier way to go but not as secure as the hook system and ring system. You may find that it can come loose from the cleat under heavy sailing.
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Posted: Jun 24, 2010 - 04:12 PM
Take the N5.2 system, with 2 sheaves at the top. Move the one from the front of the mast to the bottom of the mast facing the tramp. The line runs from the tramp area, around that sheave, then straight up the sail track, to the remaining sheave at the top, and then over.
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Posted: Jun 24, 2010 - 05:42 PM
Yeah he could do that also, but he would need a new top casting for the mast.
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Dave Bonin
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Posted: Jun 24, 2010 - 09:58 PM
No, no. I was just trying to describe the system with the halyard in the mast since you said you weren't sure how that worked. I would certainly maintain the castings available and use them as intended.
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Rob
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Posted: Jun 24, 2010 - 10:19 PM
Oh right, duh. Been a looong week. 12-14 hour days, no wind forecasted for the weekend, sigh.
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Posted: Jun 25, 2010 - 03:25 AM
Sorry about the pics not being rotated... They are rotated in Photobucket just not here.
Great advice. I'd like to go the Halyard Hook and Ring set up. Will those Halyard Hooks from Murray's fit on any mast?
Today while sailing the Sail was about 12" lower that it should have been. Good day sailing but all it could think about was fixing it the way it should be.
Any other ideas please let me know.
I also need to find some more info on a few other parts of the boat like the rear traveler. Its missing a major part.
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Posted: Jun 25, 2010 - 09:00 AM
I updated the post, to show a setup that more resembles yours.
I think you are missing the traveler car, it fits onto that track on the top of the beam. When you buy one be VERY sure you get one that matches your track, Google Harken, they have some diagrams & specs of tracks in their technical help).
To control the car a line appx 10' long is tied to the eye on the beam, (the one about the center of your photo), Make sure you tie a knot in this line that will limit how far the car can travel.(Don't let it hit the stops at the end of the track) When you gybe, as the sail goes to the other side the car will go over too, very quickly if you don't control it. If it hits the end of the track you can shear the stops off. the car will then fly off the end of the track, & unless it is a captive bearing model, all the little balls will fall out.
When you pull this line it will center the car. By traveling "out" you can dump power from the sailplan.
There is a strap eye on top of the traveler car that you shackle the lower block to.
I wouldn't shackle my main block where you have it, there is quite a bit of leverage on that fitting now, you will break it. These 2 photos show the car on the track (that is what you are missing),the lower block shackled to the car, & a stopper knot, showing how it limits travel.
edited by: Edchris177, Jun 25, 2010 - 05:02 PM
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Posted: Jun 28, 2010 - 03:34 PM
Edchris177 - I just emailed Harken to see if they could help. Here is the Shape of my track. Looks to be about 13/16ths of an inch wide.
Any suggestions on what would work.
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Posted: Jun 28, 2010 - 05:42 PM
i got an email saying you PM'd me, but there is nothing showing up in the in box.
Google Harken, or here are a couple of links, there is quite a bit of info on there tech pages.
http://www.harken.com/pdf/Track_size-chart.pdf
http://www.harken.com/charts/smboatcbtrackdim.php
http://www.harken.com/rigtips/rigtips.php
http://www.harken.com/pdf/TravelerManuals.php
Hope some of this helps you out.
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Posted: Jun 28, 2010 - 11:50 PM
I just reposted my post, so others can follow the thread, the pictures got dumped somehow on the original post.
I updated the post, to show a setup that more resembles yours.
I think you are missing the traveler car, it fits onto that track on the top of the beam. When you buy one be VERY sure you get one that matches your track, Google Harken, they have some diagrams & specs of tracks in their technical help).
To control the car a line appx 10' long is tied to the eye on the beam, (the one about the center of your photo), Make sure you tie a knot in this line that will limit how far the car can travel.(Don't let it hit the stops at the end of the track) When you gybe, as the sail goes to the other side the car will go over too, very quickly if you don't control it. If it hits the end of the track you can shear the stops off. the car will then fly off the end of the track, & unless it is a captive bearing model, all the little balls will fall out.
When you pull this line it will center the car. By traveling "out" you can dump power from the sailplan.
There is a strap eye on top of the traveler car that you shackle the lower block to.
I wouldn't shackle my main block where you have it, there is quite a bit of leverage on that fitting now, you will break it. These 2 photos show the car on the track (that is what you are missing),the lower block shackled to the car, & a stopper knot, showing how it limits travel.
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Posted: Jun 29, 2010 - 12:22 PM
I don't think I've ever seen a Trac 18, what is that flat piece that curves under the beam?
You are definitely missing your traveler car in that picture, the main blocks shouldn't be attached directly to the swivel cleat.
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Posted: Jun 29, 2010 - 08:22 PM
Harken Emailed me back and says i need a Car with part # 440. Anyone know where to get one? I've used "The Google" and no luck.
Damon - here are 2 other photos of the Trac 18. The piece you asked about is part of the rudder/tiller. the Tiller Extension is attached to that curved piece. Not sure if that is stock but works good. Looks to me Stock.
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Posted: Jun 30, 2010 - 01:12 PM
Trac 18 is a great design lightweight and fast. I used to sail on one back in th 80s. The tiller levers under the tramp so when you tack you dont have to turn around and face aft and flip the tiller. you have to close the xtension. I really liked this and never understood why it didnt get used on other boats. When sailing you hold the tiller with you forward hand and sheet the main with your rear hand. This gives you better leverage on the sheet.
I do remember the halyard was a huge pain in the rear. It was not an aussie ring but some sort of two part flopper deal, on part on the mast tip and one part on the halyard. You had to loop it around the top of the sail in order to extend the lower mechanism. Really complicated to explain, needless to say it was a serious POS. You had to try and catch it over and over and over again both raising and lowering. 9 times out of 10 I would just raise main, tie a slip knot at the mastbase and flip boat over and manually hook it up.
Beside that flaw the boat sails great has a lightweight dingy feel to it. This design was way ahead of its time(1982?), clean lines and high aspect daggers. Treat her right there are few of them left out there.
Once you geta traveler car on you need to rivet end some sort of stop at the end of the track. It looks like this is missing. If you dont have that then you will lose the new car sooner or later. -
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Posted: Jun 30, 2010 - 02:06 PM
This site has what you need.
http://www.pyacht.com/harken-replacement-cars.htm
The 440 has a pivoting sheave, which you don't really need, just turn your rear beam so that the track faces directly towards the cringle at the clew of your mainsail. Nacra says that on boomless boats the track will be inclined forward.
You probably want #159 or #214,Harken 1250 Traveler Car w/ Control Sheaves and Strap, that is what's on my Nacra 5.7, so $143 will solve your problem.
The email might have meant this:
http://www.harkenstore.com/uniface.urd/scpdinw1.ShowProd?409Z56LC627WI
but then you still need to find the sheaves & shackle that go on top.
Don't try to save $20, get a Hi Load system there is quite a bit of strain on this bit of equipment.
also try some of the discount sailing shops, like Mauri Pro, Pyacht.com or sailingservices.com. They all have 1-800# so it's their dime.
Just be sure to identify your track from the diagrams in previous posts link.
Windvane, good to hear someone with firsthand knowledge chime in. I think he has the stops, I can see the red ones in on of the pictures,(leading me to believe it is "small boat track") I think he may have removed the stop to photo the track profile, but you made a good point. If the car comes off the end of the track, you won't loose it as the mainsheet will still be under the strap eye, BUT if it is a non captive bearing car, all your bearings will be gone. I learned this the hard way, while rebuilding mine slid off the end, luckily in the basement, but it took over 2 hours of moving everything out & hunting down 60 some odd of them!
Item last, once you get the car, if it is a non captive bearing, you either need a car loader, or use MUMMPS trick of filling the car with shaving cream to hold the bearings in place while you slide it on the track. See this thread:
http://www.thebeachcats.com/module-forum-viewtopic-topic-11583.html
edited by: Edchris177, Jun 30, 2010 - 01:36 PM
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Posted: Jun 30, 2010 - 02:41 PM
I gave them a call.. The part is on there site but no price and not available. This thing is going to be tricky to get.
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Posted: Jun 30, 2010 - 06:54 PM
Forget the 440, get the 214, that is exactly what's on my Cat. It was listed, with a price. Are they out of them too?
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Posted: Jun 30, 2010 - 08:05 PM
The 214 it is... looks like pyacht has one on there site. Ordering it up.
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Posted: Jul 02, 2010 - 12:29 AM
I got the Last 214 Harken hard. I had to order it direct from them because nobody else had one. I payed more but I'm in luck....
Again. Thanks for all the help.
