Bought two sets of the adjustable trapeze hardware from Murray's. My wife hated them and then Friday 15+ and high waves one of them let go on my crew as we were boiling along. I was then single handing a 5.8na in 15+ and 4-6' waves. I furled my jib (great investment) and had to jibe around for 30 minutes trying to a) find him and b) line up to pluck him out of the drink.
As I installed my old trapeze gear (Worked great), I heard other stories of these letting go. If you buy them, don't trust the factory knots! Simple is best. They are going back.
I hear there is a man overboard pattern one can sail, does anyone know it?
Man overboard maneuver? and new gear trials and tribulations
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Posted: Jul 06, 2010 - 06:22 PM
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Posted: Jul 06, 2010 - 06:37 PM
i have never had a problem with my adjusters.. however i did see a guy go from flying 100% (any higher would capsize) to hitting a windless spot and have the hull drop down kinda fast. his old rusted out adjuster gave out and dunked him. it was great to watch.. not so great for him. (i keep an eye out for corrosion on them now).
I do agree with every new block/cleat you have one more item to fail.... but i can't see how a clamcleat gave out unless he was hanging off the adjustment end of the line.
I have found man overboard rescue is a skill and needs practicing... (and refreshers)...
i THINK that a long and wide figure 8 is the way to go... it would be hard to get a good line up (on picking up someone in the drink) with 2 quick tacks, and sailing in small circles is pretty hard too.
I had a comical experiences as crew last winter where my ballcap flew off and we spent 30 minutes trying to get back into position to get it.. .never got it back...
edited by: andrewscott, Jul 06, 2010 - 06:41 PM -
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Posted: Jul 06, 2010 - 07:08 PM
We think it was one of the factory knots that let go. I've not had time to examine the unit completely. No mechanical hardware failed. What was scary was loosing him in the swells and trying to stay upright while jibing in high winds. I finally got close enough to toss a rescue line. We were 3-4 miles off shore at the time. Headed straight in and put the old stuff back on and had a blast the rest of the day. -
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Posted: Jul 06, 2010 - 09:21 PM
life is much more "exciting" when you survive wild wind and water.
kinda makes me feel alive (not that its fun)... but after... wow!
gotcha on the hardware...i can see a factory knot coming undone.
edited by: andrewscott, Jul 06, 2010 - 09:25 PM -
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Posted: Jul 06, 2010 - 10:06 PM
Tie a whistle onto each life jacket.
To pick someone out of the water I usually sail up wind to them and put them right between the hulls. Turn straight into the wind and let them clime up the main beam. Maybe not in high waves.....
edited by: skarr1, Jul 06, 2010 - 09:14 PM -
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Posted: Jul 07, 2010 - 12:10 AM
In my keelboating course years ago, we were taught to sail a "hockey stick", it is too hard to try & come directly back to someone. If you have more than 2 people on the cat, brief them before hand that in the event of a MO, YOU will sail the boat, the others only job is to never take their eyes off the MO. That will solve most of the problem of "where are they now?"
As mentioned every sailor should have a Fox 40 whistle attached to their PFD, you simply cannot yell loud enough to be heard, or for very long.
It doesn't really apply to beachcats, but at the first call of MO, the closest person threw the MO pole over, an end weighted pole with flag that drifted about the same as a body.
We always approached & luffed up, or hove to just to the downwind of the MO, you didn't want a multi ton lead mine drifting over top of the victim.
I think a cat would work the same, luff up , with them on the upwind hull. Running them between the hulls would be very easy to misjudge your final stopping point, & if they didn't grab the DS I think you could kill them in big waves.
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Posted: Jul 07, 2010 - 04:02 AM
The MOB pattern I learnt is
0) shout "Swim" at MOB & assign a "pointer" to point out the MOB at all times; then:
1) Luff up to (almost) head to wind
2) Fall off to dead down wind (w/o tacking)
3) continue on for 8 boat lengths
4) head up to on the wind
5) once you cross your MOB; tack
6) pick up MOB to leeward luffing head to wind to stop the boat (if you have a hold of your MOB!)
I find on a cat it depends on your course, if sailing downwind you may be able to just luff up and start at 4)
and eight boat lengths is not enough! I use almost twice that but you don't want to overdo it for fear of losing sight of your MOB.
Whatever you do My MOB motto is: Take your time and get it right the first time. Doing it over will always take longer than doing it right. -
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Posted: Jul 07, 2010 - 10:30 AM
Good idea Dennis about having a "pointer", that was on our course, I forgot about it. It removes the ambiguity that may result from the skipper asking "where is he?" you simply go to where he is pointing.
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Posted: Jul 07, 2010 - 12:09 PM
how often do you have 3 on a beachcat? its rare i have any crew.
a few weeks ago a very enthusiastic newbie was out (capsized) in about 18mph on a h16. as we sailed up on him my friend told me " go up there and tell him to get on the righting line.. i will sail up and help lift his mast" (a skill my friend is good at).. when i sailed up to the h16 i never saw his crew in the water. i apparently sailed right past him.
the guy in the water was around 300lbs. not wearing a pfd and didn't signal or yell at me at all when i almost sailed over him.
my friend saw him.. picked him out of the water and dropped him off at the h16. the combined weight of the crew and skip were almost 2x the boat weight... (they had no problem righting it)
later we all met up on a close island and i gave them a piece of my mind (nicely).
The crew explained to me that he wasn't wearing a pfd so he could dive under the water and under my boat... i explained to him i have 3' dagger boards under my 3' hulls.... (the guy was so,..... "buoyant" i doubt he could get 6' below water)
I politely explained how stupid this was.. :)
i said... you should have your life jacket on.. esp with a rookie skipper, esp in winds above 10mph, etc
i explained when in the water... wave, scream, yell at any boat that is heading your way (or you may sleep with the fishies after it hits you)
the take away message here is: know and brief your crew what to do in the even of.... I used to take any hot girl who wanted to "strap on a harness" for a sail. now i ask.. Can you swim? (for real). and how well? Here is what you do if I fall overboard... here is what you do if you fall overboard... STAY WITH THE BOAT, here is how to perform mouth to mouth in-case i get drunk and need a kiss... etc.... :)
I do have a whistle on my pfd. i usually have a nife in it too.
Should be noted in heavy conditions... a whistle is just about useless.. this year at the Tybee.. a skipper fell overboard and it took along time for the crew to find him.. he said he was waving his arms and using his wistle.
he ended up activating his emergency beacon and the coast guard showed up. there was a lot of discussion on the other site's forums about what could have been done differently.. and in that situation, a hand flare would have been the only thing that would have helped.
edited by: andrewscott, Jul 07, 2010 - 12:18 PM -
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Posted: Jul 07, 2010 - 12:38 PM
Andrew...Good story and my point exactly. My pal is an experienced sailor, had a pfd on but was cramped and exhausted when I pulled him out. He also was having a hard time swimming against the waves (which on lake Mi can be very steep.) This weekend was blowing like a banshee and we had the "big holdiday weekend" crowd down at the beach. We were all aghast at parents who were taking young children in k mart vests into the blow on boats that rarely leave the beach. Incredible. Thank goodness we have a crack guard service because they were very busy righting capsized boats. -
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Posted: Jul 07, 2010 - 12:49 PM
yea, it amazes me to see how negligent some people are with their kids... (and themselves). i see guys in canoes and kayaks with infants in them.. paddling through the intra-coastal... some infants have life-jackets, some dont.
the coast guard has recently been called out for several rescues form idiots stuck on islands in low tide? one Einstein lit the fricken island on fire with a signal flair...
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Posted: Jul 07, 2010 - 01:47 PM
When I was MUCH younger, a group of us lake-sailed with 3 or 4 onboard in good wind, just 2 if the wind was down. At a lull, or if there were enough folks oboard who knew how to sail, the captain would yell CAPTAIN OVERBOARD and jump off. It was an enforced MO drill with no warning, but who gets warning anyway. Chuckles and curses abounded, but we all got real good at manuvering our cat minus the guy who was just running most of it, and getting them back on to give them some cooler-water over the head. I still sail with those guys, but I don't think we've done that in years
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Posted: Jul 07, 2010 - 05:26 PM
Larry,
I dropped my wife in Lake Michigan a couple years ago in the same weather conditions as last weekend. She was on the wire when we came down off a wave and the shock snapped the trapeze wire about 3 feet above her hands (have since replaced all standing rigging and trap lines). So she went for a swim. I had to circle back and pick her up, with only me left on the boat. Was able to bring the boat to a near stop in irons with her between the hulls so she could climb back on. She was in a wetsuit, spraytop and lifejacket so once she calmed down she was ok being in the water. Man over board visibility is the reason my spray tops are bright yellow or bright red, with red lifejackets.
Last weekend I saw two teenage girls on a Hobie wave with PFD's strapped around the mast instead of on them. Some poeple just don't understand. Maybe overly comfortable with knowing the rescrue boat is in the area.
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Posted: Jul 07, 2010 - 05:47 PM
Jackets are a choice (only for adults)... such as helmets for motorcyclists.
stupid to go without, but some people demand to be stupid
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Posted: Jul 07, 2010 - 07:10 PM
I also would sail without my PFD on when I was younger, however only on small lakes in light wind. Anytime the wind picked up I would put on my PFD, or when on a big body of water. However to see kids on Lake Michigan in 15+ wind without them on seemed just stupid to me. Not to mention the water is still fairly cold. With the splashing and spray off the water I was wanting my spraytop when I was out last weekend, water temp is still in the low 60's.
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Posted: Jul 07, 2010 - 08:38 PM
My buddy and I were laughing about how we'd tie off those coast guard approved cushions to the tramp and say we were in compliance when we were younger. Saturday we went out with my wife on board and she noted he had forgotten his pfd. We went right back to he beach. Scott we all were in shorties last weekend. I agree. We are very spoiled at Glencoe and Wilmette. -
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Posted: Jul 07, 2010 - 10:03 PM
what changed my mind on wearing pfd was... not being able to get up my big mystere bows with wet long-johns and ronstan inshore farmer john bib in cold weather... (upper 50's is frigid here).
i always wore it in 10+, waives, boat traffic, rain, spinnaker out, etc.
my biggest issue has always been on the wire it chokes me... i have solved that with a 2' thin bungie accross my lifejacket. i can completely unzip it on the wire and it isn't falling off me. i can also run the bungee under the hook and it holds my harness up.
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Posted: Jul 07, 2010 - 10:19 PM
Sounds like Andrew found some redneck sailing suspenders..
Glad to hear it works.
I wear kayaking PFD's for that very reason, helps keep the jacket down at the same time not intefering with harness. It also helps to be tall with a long torso.
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Posted: Jul 08, 2010 - 10:30 AM
hahah...
when in Rome ... I mean Tampa... yea haw
edited by: andrewscott, Jul 08, 2010 - 10:41 AM -
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Posted: Jul 08, 2010 - 06:09 PM
The law where I am says you can go without wearing your PFD on a sailboard, canoe, small dinghy,Cat or other non powered craft, BUT if you are not wearing it then you are required to have the paddles/signalling/heaving line & other stuff generally required on a power boat of up to 6 meters.
So the cops just hand you a $250 non compliance fine if you are not wearing it, as nobody carries all the other gear.
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