Man overboard maneuver? and new gear trials and tribulations

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carl2

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Registered: Oct 13, 2003

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Posts: 111
Posted: Aug 22, 2017 - 02:03 PM

2nd trip out on the Prindle 19 it was gusting to 17, we went on a close haul all the way across Burt Lake (Northern Mi..LP) about 9 miles..after coming about to head back my son was freeing the jib sheet from the bottom of the mast whilst holding on to the line that adjusts the bullet block for the 4-way jib for ballast, when it uncleated from the other side he went right over..I had him by his ankles for a few seconds but decided all the years of raising him now was not the time for revenge and let go of him so he could get his head out of the water.
Now, all by myself on this beast I had put 10 boat lengths on him before I could get her in irons & furl the jib
Had to gyb to get back to him and damn near lost it twice..could not get back to him no matter how I tried, best I could do was about 30 yds from him & get into irons..waves were making him tired of swimming..at least he had a PFD & water was 70 degrees..Pontoon boat came out thankfully & fished hm out but they wanted to take him in & leave me to my own mess to get back to the state park 9 miles the other way by myself..took some convincing but I finally got him back on board & we flew a hull most of the way back :)

Edited by carl2 on Aug 22, 2017 - 02:04 PM.
MN3

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Posted: Aug 22, 2017 - 02:59 PM

glad it turned out ok
drift anchor (sock) or regular anchor may have helped
klozhald

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Posted: Aug 22, 2017 - 04:50 PM

carl2Pontoon boat came out thankfully & fished hm out but they wanted to take him in & leave me to my own mess to get back to the state park 9 miles the other way by myself..took some convincing but I finally got him back on board & we flew a hull most of the way back :)

It is hard to believe how self-righteous some people can be when giving aid. If your son is "under age", pontoon jerk would have been kidnapping to take him from you, and possibly endangerment toward you.
It only gets worse from here.

--
Sheet In!
Bob
_/)_____/)_/)____/)____/)_____/)/)__________/)__
Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
(Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
Arizona, USA
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spoulton

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Posted: Aug 22, 2017 - 07:15 PM

I keep a rescue bag that as a 75 foot length of rope in it. Can throw it (about 50 feet) and that way only have to get close to man overboard to haul them in. Mine is made for kayak rescues and comes from NRS. Seems like a good thing to have in the trap bag. Anyone else have any experience with this.

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nohuhu

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Posted: Aug 23, 2017 - 03:05 AM

Practiced heaving to, Carl? Would be a great skill for your son to learn, for when dad falls off the wire.

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Prindle 18
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carl2

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Posted: Aug 23, 2017 - 08:26 AM

You know, I've got a righting bag on board,,never thought of it as a sea anchor or rescue line..thx (well, actually I have cause I read it here, just didn't put it into practice, I didn't think of it, to much going thru my head nor did I have extra line)

nohuhu,, I've noticed that in CRAM racing when they are congregating & waiting for the start they "Park" the cats...not quite sure how its done..looks like backwinding the jib & turning rudder into wind & holding it with a lose sail?

My son is 28 now, married now & gave me a grand daughter..going to help him get a Hobie 16 this week for CRAM racing

Edited by carl2 on Aug 23, 2017 - 08:30 AM.
MN3

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Posted: Aug 23, 2017 - 08:41 AM

QuoteI keep a rescue bag that as a 75 foot length of rope in it. Can throw it (about 50 feet) and that way only have to get close to man overboard to haul them in. Mine is made for kayak rescues and comes from NRS. Seems like a good thing to have in the trap bag. Anyone else have any experience with this.

I sail with a guy who carries one on his tramp every time we sail in any real weather

I've never seen him deploy it, but i think it's a great idea

I have seen people fall overboard and get hypodermic - it is scary
MN3

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Posted: Aug 23, 2017 - 08:48 AM

QuoteYou know, I've got a righting bag on board,,never thought of it as a sea anchor or rescue line..thx (well, actually I have cause I read it here, just didn't put it into practice, I didn't think of it, to much going thru my head nor did I have extra line)

I think i righting bag would help (slow the boat), but would/could take too much time to deploy (get out, make sure attached, lower into water, hold lip open to fill and then hope it doesn't collapse and let most of the water out when you let go

I don't think it would make a great throwable (it will sink, and has blocks attached - could hurt or knock out the person in the water, that wouldn't help)

a wind sock (drift anchor) is very small, light and easy to deploy (also cheap)
i don't carry one but i don't sail in heavy air anymore, and carry an anchor at all times - but i still think i will get one

Quotenohuhu,, I've noticed that in CRAM racing when they are congregating & waiting for the start they "Park" the cats...not quite sure how its done..looks like backwinding the jib & turning rudder into wind & holding it with a lose sail?

heaving to is the correct way to park in this situation (i believe)
to do this, you furl the jib if you can
travel out the main about 1 foot (may be different for different boats)
and secure the rudders over hard (all the way) in the opposite direction from the main

your sail will try to head you up, your rudders head you down - your boat can still drift a little but not sail

Edited by MN3 on Aug 23, 2017 - 08:49 AM.
carl2

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Posted: Aug 23, 2017 - 08:56 AM

A throwable with line could be kept under the tramp easy enough..could keep a drift sock with it too..how much line does a drift sock need?
MN3

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Posted: Aug 23, 2017 - 09:15 AM

QuoteA throwable with line could be kept under the tramp easy enough..could keep a drift sock with it too..how much line does a drift sock need?

the ones at BassPro come with a "Includes 76" tethering strap with corrosion-resistant clips"
the ones at WestMarine "30' of rope, "

as long as it is free of snags, it doesn't have to be long ... (i think - i have never used one)

http://www.basspro.com/sh…_googleproductextensions

http://www.cabelas.com/pr…EgJLofD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
Edchris177

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Posted: Aug 23, 2017 - 11:13 AM

Quoteto do this, you furl the jib if you can
travel out the main about 1 foot (may be different for different boats)
and secure the rudders over hard (all the way) in the opposite direction from the main

Leave the jib out, backwinded. That tries to drive the bows downwind, opposite rudder counteracts it. On the Nacra we can drop the main, or leave it in a null position.
Different boats react differently when hove-to.
When sailing on a blue water full keeled Rafiki 38, we sat nearly motionless. The rounded hulled Cats, my H18, & previous Mystere would drift downwind much quicker than the skeg hulled NACRAs. Dropping the boards on the Hobie slows this considerably, but it can also change the trim, you often have to very slightly adjust the main to compensate.
Skeg hulls are dream. I once parked the N5.7 with jib & bungeed rudders whilst I dropped the main to retrieve a top batten that was hanging halfway out. In a real blow I could have tied up the main & sat there til I finally hit the lee shore.
All sailing courses teach heave-to, IMO all sailor should know how to do it, & how your particular boat best does it.

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Hobie 18 Magnum
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klozhald

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Posted: Aug 23, 2017 - 11:22 AM

carl2nohuhu,, I've noticed that in CRAM racing when they are congregating & waiting for the start they "Park" the cats...not quite sure how its done..looks like backwinding the jib & turning rudder into wind & holding it with a lose sail?

To park, head into the wind close-hauled. Sheet the jib from the wrong side until the clew crosses the mast base. Travel your main sail all the way out, sheeted snugly, and push your rudders away from you. Fix the tiller in this position if you can by extending the stick to the side stay. The cat will stay to weather like this, gently sawing back and forth, even in the ocean.

The yellow paperback, Catamaran Racing: For the 90's, has good information on handling your cat, including how to back up!

Rick Whte, the author of the above book, also published this one: Sailing Drills: How to Sail Better, Faster, Smarter, Safer. It takes catamaran handling to a much greater level. Makes for a fun day (or two) on the water learning how to do this stuff.

--
Sheet In!
Bob
_/)_____/)_/)____/)____/)_____/)/)__________/)__
Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
(Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
Arizona, USA
--
MN3

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Posted: Aug 23, 2017 - 12:45 PM

QuoteLeave the jib out, backwinded. That tries to drive the bows downwind, opposite rudder counteracts it. On the Nacra we can drop the main, or leave it in a null position.

Jib may or may not be best depending on boat, wind and wave action.
if something goes wrong (i.e. the line securing the tililer fails) you are opening a can of worms

QuoteDifferent boats react differently when hove-to.

totally agree and i should have disclaimed for that
Edchris177

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Posted: Aug 23, 2017 - 03:20 PM

QuoteJib may or may not be best depending on boat, wind and wave action.
if something goes wrong (i.e. the line securing the tililer fails) you are opening a can of worms

It's a very small can, perhaps a single skinny worm, barely worthy of baiting a perch hook.
If the tiller does let go, you are merely in the position you use to tack, with a backwinded jib. Nothing happens very fast while tacking, even if you have the rudders pointing the right way. If let loose they will settle at close to null position, & you will slowly come around. With the main free, it will stay at null, untill it hits the shroud, giving you plenty of time to push the rudders back where you want them.
I have hove-to on all my Cats, save for the new to me Dart, I would leave the jib out, drop the main if you are in for a real blow, or prolonged sit.

Edited by Edchris177 on Aug 23, 2017 - 03:23 PM.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--
MN3

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Posted: Aug 23, 2017 - 04:12 PM

QuoteI have hove-to on all my Cats, save for the new to me Dart, I would leave the jib out, drop the main if you are in for a real blow, or prolonged sit.

i am not a fan of the "on the water main drop" unless it is real do - or -die"

I would have pulled in my jib at the first chance to depower my boat and ducked behind an island.
randii

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Posted: Aug 23, 2017 - 08:41 PM

MN3my biggest issue has always been on the wire it chokes me... i have solved that with a 2' thin bungie accross my lifejacket. i can completely unzip it on the wire and it isn't falling off me. i can also run the bungee under the hook and it holds my harness up.

Test that baby out in full immersion... you add a lot to this forum and I'd hate to lose that.

I have recent experience with a similar situation on my PFD; I had a bad day at the local run-bike-paddle triathlon this year... among other things, I dumped my boat, got separated from it, and got sucked back into the rapids and further below the surface than I care to remember. I had my paddle PFD belt clipped but had slacked on zipping up... I wasn't 'planning' to swim! The PFD belt separated and as I was going down, the PFD was going UP and with me trying to swim up to the surface, that PFD was at my elbows almost immediately. I pulled my arms down and grabbed the vest and used one arm to hold it with the other arm still digging for the surface. I popped up next to one of the race rescue kayaks and grabbed on and kicked for shore with the kayak assist. Said rescuer rightfully observed: "That PFD will work better if it was zipped onto you. You're the first guy I thought we might actually lose today." That's not how I want to finish... or is that a DNF?

Lots of great MOB stuff in this thread! I'll be discussing this with my crew.

Zip/Buckle it up, and make it back to share the story here!

Randii
MN3

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Posted: Aug 24, 2017 - 08:16 AM

QuoteTest that baby out in full immersion... you add a lot to this forum and I'd hate to lose that.

Thanks Randii -
your experience sounds terrible -

I have capsized a few times (or jumped in) and had the jacket rise up and cover my face - i didn't find that comfy nor helpful

I amended my method at that time and started to use the webbing/buckle that is on the bottom of the West Marine pfd i have used for the past decade (not the same exact pdf) - this holds the pdf much closer and tighter (while leaving room for the hook) and would help keep it in place if/when i go swimming

as it were, i purchased a boat 2 years ago with wings - and hadn't wore a harness in years (broke the hook of my harness and didn't replace it)

I JUST purchased a new spreader bar (hook) and rigged trap wires on my boat again for the first time in years.

Edited by MN3 on Aug 24, 2017 - 08:39 AM.
windwardde

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Posted: Aug 24, 2017 - 08:16 AM

MN3, I had a PFD I loved, unless I was on the wire. Same issue and I tried everything including the bungee, but to no avail.
We don't want to lose you in a freak PFD/bungee accident. You provide too much info and entertainment (see other thread, going on)
My humble opinion is to go to sporting goods store and wear out a salesperson or two trying on everything possible with the harness on and attempting to jack that harness into flying position. Maybe search out the best looking saleswoman in the store to assist
I did exactly this and found one that worked for me in all conditions. PFD, not saleswoman. FWIW, it's a kayak zhik, but it's all about personal fit and choice, so my experience is just that, mine.

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Supercat 15
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MN3

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Posted: Aug 24, 2017 - 08:27 AM

Thanks windwardde
I no longer use the bungee, and use the bottom webbing / clip

edit- removed my comments about brands that i don't have first hand knowledge of

Edited by MN3 on Aug 24, 2017 - 02:46 PM.
randii

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Posted: Aug 24, 2017 - 02:38 PM

Quoteyour experience sounds terrible

It got my attention, certainly. The road rash from crashing out the bike in a different leg of the same race was worse! In any case, I survived both and am zipping in better, so we'll call it a net win... and with a new slowest time in the race, I'm certain next year will be a relative improvement!

Sounds like you had the unfastened jacket figured out on your own... no surprise, considering how much sailing you seem to squeeze into your days. Color me jealous.

I'm still looking (lazily) for a better PFD/harness solution. The Blood Red kickstarter campaign has my interest, I hope they can get the appropriate ratings for stateside use. I've tried on a Mustang that I like, as well, but I'd rather have closed-cell foam than an inflatable, at least for my beach cat. Seems like every different vessel I'm on has a different optimum configuration.

Randii