1)why is there a single block on my jib halyard that connects the wire to the rope. I see no purpose, unless I have it set up wrong. 2)What size line is the rudder pull down? I have 1/4 inch and i had problems uncleating in precarious situations. 3)What do the spreaders do. I have the single bar. 4)What size is the standard traveler sheet and main sheet and mine appears to be 5/16 and 3/8?My traveler come uncleated a lot.
5) Is there any drawback to a continuous sheet like the hobie or prindle16. 6)I have a lot of weather helm does this add to the amount of muscle needed to move the tiller. Mine is a work out when going to weather .
Having said all this I am starting to love the boat.
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5.2 questions
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Posted: Jul 12, 2010 - 01:12 AM
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Posted: Jul 12, 2010 - 02:18 AM
1. It gives you a 2:1 purchase on the jib uphaul(?)
2. 3/16
3. (this could be lengthy, I'll defer)
4. I use 1/4" traveler sheet. I don't think there is any 'standard'
5. yes
6. yes
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Posted: Jul 12, 2010 - 04:03 AM
1)why is there a single block on my jib halyard
for squeezing the last 0.1% of performance out of the jib you loosen the jib halyard tension on downwind sections. the halyard comes down the mast, through a stainless saddle riveted to the mast, back up to the small block, and down to the jam cleat
pretty much only of use when racing 1 design against other 5.2's with crew
just rig straight to down to the jam cleat and fuggedaboutit
2)What size line is the rudder pull down?
Batten Ties - 3/32? (2mm) x 22? (55.9cm) - White (10)
Clew Traveler Outhaul - 1/4" (6.4mm) x 4' (121.9cm) - White
Downhaul - 1/4? (6.4mm) x 6? (182.9cm) - White
Jib Halyard - 3/16? (5mm) x 22' (670.6cm) - White
Jib Pigtail - 3/16" (5mm) x 5' ( 152.4cm) - White
Jib Sheet - 5/16? (8mm) x 33? (1005.8cm) - Color
Main Halyard - 3/16? (5mm) x 52' (1585.0cm) - White
Main Sheet - 3/8? (9mm) x 40' (1219.2cm) - White
Rudder Pull Down - 1/4? (6.4mm) x 4? (121.9cm) - White (2)
Tramp Lace - 3/16? (5mm) x 18' (548.6cm) - White (2)
Trapeze Adjustment - 1/4? (6.4mm) x 3' 6" (106.7cm) - White (4)
Traveler - 5/16? (8mm) x 10? (304.8cm) - Color
http://www.saltydogmarine.com/product_info.php?cPath=421&products_id=4001&osCsid=ea32a6
3)What do the spreaders do. I have the single bar.
they hold the diamond wires which allow the mast's sideways bend to be tuned to be "tuned"
another racing 1 design feature that isn't really worth bothering about unless racing other 5.2's for a national championship
never really worked as well as it should but led to the swept spreaders which really do work, (in combination with a different design sail)
4)What size is the standard traveler sheet and main sheet and mine appears to be 5/16 and 3/8?
as above
5) Is there any drawback to a continuous sheet like the hobie or prindle16.
don't know, have never anything but the nacra system, i like having a different colored sheet for the traveller which i play downwind. have also gone back to the original 2 to 1 system for the traveller as 1 to 1 was making it too difficult to play the traveller as smoothly i wanted. my boat remains rigged on a beach for the season with only the sails and mainsheet stored elsewhere.
6)I have a lot of weather helm does this add to the amount of muscle needed to move the tiller. Mine is a work out when going to weather .
with jib or without?
how much mast rake?, if you rake like boardless prindle or hobie you are raking too far
weather helm when sailing jibless is normal as you've unbalanced the sail plan. if too much when sailing with jib then you need to rake your rudders further forward and make sure they stay there. if you have the adjusters in your rudder casings remove them so the rudders can go all the way forward. if they ARE going all the way forward they need to STAY there. try pulling on your rudders with boat on trailer, you could have stretchy line or slippy line - bad
i hate cutting into a boat BUT if all the way forward, good line, no slip in jam cleats, mast verticle etc. and still too much helm, think about starting to shave a bit of material off the rudders where they are limited in their forward swing by the casings..............i've never needed to do it but hear it's the final way of balancing the helm when everything else checks out
edited by: erice, Jul 12, 2010 - 06:15 PM -
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Posted: Jul 12, 2010 - 04:42 AM
If you want to try a continuous main sheet-traveler setup without the associated investment, just tie the two together. It works fine for me and the knot makes sure the traveler car doesn't crash through the stops in the event the traveler comes uncleated during a gybe!
http://www.animatedknots.com/doublefishermansrescue/index.php -
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Posted: Jul 12, 2010 - 08:37 AM
The manual located herehttp://www.thebeachcats.c…pictures&g2_itemId=35217
Here are a two to one and a three to one jib halyards.
I think the main purpose of the spreader, diamond wires are to keep the mast from breaking.
I use a continuous sheet main traveler.
edited by: skarr1, Jul 12, 2010 - 07:40 AM -
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Posted: Jul 12, 2010 - 09:14 AM
Right near theend of the NAcra manual is a section on tuning. It says "diamond wires is the single most critical tuning adjustment". You may not want to bother with adjusting them, but they should be set to a proper tension, you risk losing the mast otherwise. The tension controls mast bending.
Make sure you tie a knot in the traveler line that will limit how far the car can travel.(Don't let it hit the stops at the end of the track) When you gybe, as the sail goes to the other side the car will go over too, very quickly if you don't control it. If it hits the end of the track you can shear the stops off. the car will then fly off the end of the track, & unless it is a captive bearing model, all the little balls will fall out. I have a couple of pictures in this album. Near the end are pics showing traveler,jib halyard with block, and rudder casting with adjustment screw.
http://www.thebeachcats.com/index.php?module=pictures&g2_itemId=71715
edited by: Edchris177, Jul 12, 2010 - 08:28 AM
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Posted: Jul 12, 2010 - 07:02 PM
Ed,
IN this picture, you have everything you need to properly control the mast rotation. Bitter end at the eyestrap with a figure eight knot, then reef the line through the rotation arm and back to the cleat. This gives you 2:1 purchase and works quite well. I would use 3/16" line, it works well. Also to prevent the rotation arm from being pulled down past the horizontal position, attach a limiter line or wire attached to an eyestrap on the mast. Check out my album and you might find a picture.
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Posted: Jul 14, 2010 - 10:28 PM
Thanks, I think it was Ron that also counseled me to rig it that way. The old line in the photo was there when I bought the boat. They are not long enough to rig the 2:1. I changed it to one continuous line,rigged 2:1, but the line I had is cheap crap, so I'll change it again. I rigged a prevented with shock cord, but it is not robust enough, so I'll change that to a piece of line.
I was surprised at how much force there is trying to turn the mast, the 2:1 is definitely needed.
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Posted: Jul 20, 2010 - 01:58 AM
There are some glaring line specification errors in this thread.
According to my 1982 Nacra 5.2 Manual:
Mainsheet is 7/16" x 25'.
Not the 9 MM by 40' as specified by Salty Dog Marine.
Lets get this metric conversion correct:
3/8" is 9.52 MM. It is not 9 MM. 9 MM is almost 11/32. Nacra says 7/16". 9 MM is 5/64" undersized. Ridiculous. Nacra got it right. You want a thicker line to pull in that main sail. The original main blocks and pulley grooves are engineered for 7/16" line. Thats why they spec'd 7/16" line, which is 11.11 MM. Not 10 MM as many retailers are saying that 7/16" equals. And certainly not 9 MM line as spec'd by Salty Dog. Be careful, don't undersize or oversize your lines. Stay original. Tom Roland and his company have engineered the boat components to work with lines of specific dimensions.
1982 5.2 Manual: Traveler is 3/8" x 13'. If you total the Mainsheet and Traveler: that's 38'.
You can run the 7/16" line through the traveler and simplify your life, but you may have trouble as I did with the 2:1 pulley not accommodating the fatter line and the traveler cleats often wouldn't hold the fatter line securely. Not good when its blowing softly, as the traveler is reluctant to run out and not good when its blowing hard as the traveler cleat wants to let go! Go OEM. If your cleats or traveler don't function properly, you know its NOT your oversized / fat butt line!
1982 Nacra 5.2 Manual: Jibsheet is 3/8" x 32', not the 5/16" x 34'. Nothing against the Salty Dog guys, they are a quality retailer and nice folks, but their line spec's are just plain wrong.
I have been shopping for main sheet line replacement and have found many cases of (what I thought) quality retailers with incorrect or should we say, "enthusiastic" conversions of Millimeter to inches. Its been a real frustration point for me, as I believe it borders on negligent, if not fraudulent. Be careful, the conversions are almost always in the retailers favor for converting inches to a smaller MM line thickness and so achieving a lower retail price comparison. Perhaps with some prodding, they will actually use accurate conversion tables.
edited by: someguyinohio, Jul 20, 2010 - 02:04 AM -
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Posted: Jul 20, 2010 - 04:04 AM
Take a couple deep breaths, and then try to respect the fact that over 30 years have gone by since the 5.2 was designed.
There are always tradeoffs that can be made, but honestly, I don't know that there are any benefits to a 7/16" double braided mainsheet that can't be outdone with newer line.
I use 1/4" traveler sheet (sta-set), and tie it to a 3/8" NE Salsa (which could be smaller, but that's what was on the sale rack) spliced to 1/4" vectran. It all cleats well, is easy on the hands, and runs through the blocks like a champ.
Just saying you should find what works for you.
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Posted: Jul 20, 2010 - 04:39 AM
you know
no matter what they call it
sometimes i find that when i measure sheets with vernier calipers
they are not what they says they are
the shops guys look at me kinda funny when i point it out... -
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Posted: Jul 20, 2010 - 09:49 AM
My wish list 1) I had an s hook and a ring on the jib. 2) An adjustment screw on my rudders would be great 3)Jib wires were below the tramp.4)There was a better pull up system on the rudder than a bungee cord that is next to impossible to replace 5) It had a fat head main 6)the jib had roller furling . If I add/change any of these things am I messing up a boat that was designed to not have them? Oops I forgot a barber hauler.
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Posted: Jul 20, 2010 - 10:18 AM
its not a conspiracy...
sheets are "measured" under tension. and there must be some standard of how much tension and this will effect actual diameter.
I have a conversion chart in my tool box, and i used to have one in my wallet for when i went line shopping. -
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Posted: Jul 20, 2010 - 11:23 AM
Golfdad, I replaced my pull-up bungee with a line that is cleated just behind the auto-release. Works well that way. I now have a red line and a green one, release the red line and pull the green one for Up, and release the green line and pull the red line for down. Doesn't get much easier unless you are a fan of big bulky expensive cams (I'm not). -
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Posted: Jul 20, 2010 - 11:35 AM
I'm not disputing "measured" under under tension, I'm not saying "conspiracy", I'm saying that many Retailers are stating that 3/8" = 9MM and 7/16" = 10 MM. That is patently false and borders on fraud. Sailing line is sold by diameter. When product is sold by weight and a retailer sells you a Kilo of coffee stating that a Kilo equals 2 lbs, not 2.2 lbs, would that be acceptable?
3/8" = 9.5MM and 7/16" = 11 MM. Period. Why are retailers dumber than a 5th grader? Oh yeah.. greed. With their conversion tables you've been downsized 10% for the same money. Same price - less line. It's your money.
Obviously you can buy what you prefer.. And yes new lines do offer superior performance. I prefer the larger diameter gripping surface and softer feel of the 7/16" line. Ok. I'll breathe out now. -
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Posted: Jul 20, 2010 - 11:59 AM
Um, a lot of line is made outside the United States or in the states for European customers. The US are the only ones still using imperial dimenstions, everyone else pretty much uses metric. SO the retailers aren't dumb the lines are made to mm specifications and they convert them to the closest imperial equivelant for ease of understanding in the US. Also line is somewhat compressable so it can be slightly larger at rest than in use.
I use have used 7/16" and 3/8" for my main sheet and prefer the smaller line becuase it runs better in the blocks. It really depends on a number of things including personal preference and texture. Actual performance is likely not affected in any great degree by the line diamter as long as it does what is needed.
Golfdad, I have done almost all of those things and love my boat more now than when I got it and it was setup stock. There's a reason that modern boats have those types of features, you won't screw it up. :)
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1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Jul 20, 2010 - 12:28 PM
Gee Wolfman you mean my boat is not modern. Actually the point I was making is the fact that it is not the origianl design does not make it bad. Incidently all of those wishes are from yours and erice's pics. Whe you gonna get a spinaker?
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Posted: Jul 20, 2010 - 12:57 PM
There is a price to pay to add all the "modern controls".
first off.. there is the actual "price".
secondly, you add more spaghetti and it gets to be a PITA - barber, jib sheet, jib outhaul, downhaul, main, spin halyard/retrieval, spin tack, traveler. this takes up valuable room your crew wishes they had.
i have removed and added back my barberhauler about a dozen times.. it is the least intrusive line on my cat, but its also the easist to remove and do without. -
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Posted: Jul 20, 2010 - 01:11 PM
Oops sorry, I just got into work after working a 16 hour shift yesterday and I'm not exactly 100% coherent right now.
The design is relatively modern, it has just been tweaked a bit over the years. The 5.2 was the first of the 'modern design boats' and the shape of the 5.8 and 6.0 hasn't changed much over the years. You would find that the hull shape of an F18 is quite a bit different actually, they are doing all kinds of crazy 3D things with the hull shape these days.
Gotta stop being afraid of my own boat before I can get the spinnaker. :) Still getting over that bad day early in the season.
D.
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1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Jul 20, 2010 - 01:35 PM
I love the new wave piercing bows of the C2 and Wild Cat. also the chines are pretty wild. In the video of Robbie dumping the C2 on the news reporter he points out the C2's hull shape is amazingly similar to the hulls on the Alinghi (LOOOOOSER's) cat
