Hi Beachcats,
I'm new to the forum, hoping someone can give me some advice. I have an opportunity to buy an 18' Prindle, and would sail it at my cottage which is on a finger lake. My question is whether this is too much boat for the lake. Cats are so fast, I'm concerned that I'd be constantly tacking in this finger lake. I'd appreciate anyone who has sailed a comparable boat on a finger lake.
Here's what I can tell you about the lake:
- Closest basin is roughly 3km X 2km. I'd have to sail up either of 2 channels to get to the basin, approximately .75km into the prevailing wind.
- There's another basin down the lake from our island, perhaps 2km X 1km .
- Apart from the basins, there's lots of channels, islands, and shoals
- The winds can get quite high as the lake is about 10km long
- I'm an experienced Laser sailor, but I want something to take my family sailing. I've seen a 16' Hobie on the lake, and it has no difficulty pointing up channels that the Laser cannot handle. Moreover, with all the islands, and resulting wind shifts, I find it very challenging to sail the Laser: I'm either becalmed or completely heeled over. The Hobie seems to handle the gusts without heeling over.
And here's what I can tell you about me
- Experienced Laser and Albacore sailor
- Family of four (wife and 2 boys, 11 and 8 -- none of them experienced sailors). My wife and I weigh ~300lbs together, the family weighs ~450lbs together
- I'm not looking to race, just looking for a fun family sailboat to tour the lake in
- Lake Ontario is only 30 minutes away, so I could always take it there for a couple of days a year for a really strong and steady wind.
Thanks Folks! Look forward to your input!
Would Prindle 18' be good for a finger lake?
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**unknown user**
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Posted: Jul 27, 2010 - 11:27 PM
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Posted: Jul 28, 2010 - 12:14 AM
What's the alternative? Something slower?
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Rob
OKC
Pile of Nacra parts..
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Posted: Jul 28, 2010 - 01:10 AM
The Prindle 18 should serve you well in those conditions and is a better choice than a Hobie 16. It sails well with higher weights, rigs easy and is pretty light for the size. It doesn't have daggerboards to worry about and doesn't need a lot of adjustment once it is setup so it is really good for close in sailing with unknown depths. They are also fast boats so as the kids get older you can probably keep them interested. It is not made anymore but parts are readily available from a number of sources. Overall a good choice for a family boat with lots of future upside.
Another boat to look at is a Hobie Getaway. It is really bouyant and stable with lots of room for the family and gear. Rotomolded hulls that are super tough and comfy wing seats. The only real disadvantage is that its not really a fast boat and doesn't have the performance characteristics of the Prindle and it doesn't have the best asthetics (IMHO).
Other than those two all the other boats that I can think of that would work have daggerboards or centerboards. Probably not something you want to deal with, with 3-4 people on board. The Prindle would 18 be a really good choice for a first cat!
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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Jul 28, 2010 - 08:44 AM
Agree. No problems size-wise but the non-centerboard plastic hobie is an alternative. I'd go 18 Prindle.
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H18, H17, P19, Glastron GT-150 (Bond jump boat)
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Posted: Jul 28, 2010 - 10:39 PM
I 2nd the Getaway idea. 1000 lbs capacity, hulls that take punishment, and a "bob" so when those boys take it for a spin without dad...it ads a level of safety. All good things IF you dont want to race. Thats the biggest sacrifice. -
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Posted: Jul 28, 2010 - 11:29 PM
I sailed a Getaway last weekend for the first time it was fun, confortable and cut thru the surf like a knife! Its very relaxing! -
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Posted: Jul 28, 2010 - 11:57 PM
Thanks Everyone! A couple of follow-up questions:
- Why are daggerboards or centerboards a problem with 3-4 people on board?
- Judging from these comments, I'm wondering if the "H-16" that I've seen on the lake is really an H-18 -- because I've seen the wing seats.
- It sounds like the P18 is a faster, but less comfortable, boat than the H18 or the Hobie Getaway? I'm 50, less flexible than I used to be. I like the sound of those wing seats, but sounds like I sacrifice performance? I've also heard that the Hobie 18 has daggerboards, so I guess I'd sacrifice some simplicity?
- Of course the other factor is cost. If believe this P18 is available for ~$4k (with trailer). I haven't seen it yet, but the seller is local, so I have the chance to see it (and sail it) before I buy it. Maybe there's some used H18 out there of comparable price and quality, but I'd have to search and this P18 has fallen into my lap.
Anyway, that's what's on my mind. All comments are welcome. This is great advice!
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Posted: Jul 29, 2010 - 12:27 AM
Daggerboards aren't a problem except that because the poke out the top of the hulls they take up room where you could sit. The real problem with daggerboards are where there are shoals. If you hit something with a daggerboard it will push into your hull and cause serious damage.
Centreboards are better because they rotate up into the hulls when they hit something. Less possibility of damage, but they still take up room on the hull.
The Prindle 18 is one of the few 18 foot catamarans that doesn't have either types of boards! So it is ideal for shallow water and there is lots of room for people to sit. That is one of the reasons it is the only boat I would recommend to you in addition to the Hobie Getaway. It also has a lot of buoyancy compared to other catamarans so it can handle 4 people on board.
If you find that the Prindle you look at has daggerboards then it is an 18-2 and probably wouldn't suit you. That boat is a rocketship and would likely be too much to handle.
There are aftermarket wings for a Hobie 16, but they are relatively rare. More likely it is an H18 or H17.
The P18 is a 'little' less comfortable than a getaway. Sitting on the hulls with your feet straight in front of you is a bit less confortable than the wing seats, that you can sit on or use as a backrest (on the Getaway anyway).
An H18 will likely be more work than you would want with 2 kids due to the boards. It's a really nice boat but not an ideal family cruiser.
I like the P18 for that price if it is in good shape. The wing seats aren't a huge plus, just a nice thing to have for extra comfort and space. I would be really reluctant to get a boat with boards like the H18 judging from your description of the area. The Getaway is a great choice for a cruiser but it is definitely slower than most other catamarans. You can still get more speed out of it compared to your Laser and Albacore though (probably more comparable to a Laser 2 actually).
Another thing to check out is this guide: http://www.sailingproshop.com/catamaran_guide.aspx it describes and compares a lot of catamarans that you will commonly find used. It doesn't go through the newer boats like the Getaway or Wave.
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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Jul 29, 2010 - 11:18 AM
Are you on the Finger Lakes in NY? I was just down there, I bought a seadoo lift & modified it to store my Nacra 5.7 on. I thought you might be CAnadian, since you listed distances in km.
I sailed a Wave in Barbados, in 10-20 kts, with myself (170) & wife(120). It went pretty good, a huge performance step compared to my Invitation,(nearly same hull as Laser, but bigger cockpit) You can fly a hull on the Wave, but only by yourself, & the boat is a bit small(13') for your entire family to be on at once. In a year or two your boys will comfortable by themselves on the Wave. The Wave is also a very tough & simple boat. I'd actually like to have one to play with on a really windy day. The Wave is easy to right, & you will tip your Cat at some point. I can right my 5.7 solo, but need the help of a righting bag, & it uses up a fair bit of strength. I don't have any experience with the Getaway, it's quite a bit bigger & heavier than a Wave.
The Prindle won't be as daunting as you think. I also have a waterfront home, just north of Lake Ontario, & store my 5.7 fully rigged except for the sails. That makes it 5-10 minutes to get going. You can use the boat for an hour after supper, something you wouldn't do if you have to trailer. If you have a shoreline that allows you to just pull the boat up, try not to pay anything for the trailer, you'll almost never use it.
If there are lots of shoals around having no boards is an advantage, sooner or later you, or the kids will hit one. You may get to like traveling to L Ont, if you bay is only 2x3 km, you will eat that distance in a very short time.
The Laser is a more athletic boat, as you know you do lots of moving around to stay upright on a gusty day, but you should be able to point higher than an H16. I can literally sail a spitting distance circle, or figure 8 around my kids floating platform with the Invitation, that dagger board & planing hull allows it to turn within its length (16').
If you can get a good deal on the Prindle, you could probably sell it in a year or two for the same price if you decide it is too big. Keep an eye on Kijiji, Craigslist & here, good used Waves & occasional Getaways do come up for sale. 2 months ago a 2 year old wave with custom aluminum ramp for beaching sold about 10 km from me for $3700 Cdn.
edited by: Edchris177, Jul 29, 2010 - 10:22 AM
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Posted: Jul 29, 2010 - 02:37 PM
I got the Prindle 18 for the same reason as a Family fun boat. I love it and it's great but I usually have to leave half the Family on the beach to play. This is not a big deal but if you want the entire Family on the boat for an extended period I think the Getaway is better suited.
That does not mean you will not do just fine with the Prindle 18. Our biggest obstacle is that I am very large and my 3 sons are all 13-16 and one is pretty big as well. I can do pretty well with just me and the Wife or me and the 1 son or me and the 2 smaller framed son's (youngest and oldest).
There is not a lot of tramp space on the front half of the P18 due to how the Jib Rigging is setup for that boat. Tacking can take some adjusting to until the crew has figured the best way to cross the boat. My Bigger son and do alright though sometimes I think he can't be that comfortable. It helps to have the crew fairly far forward to keep the bows down in the water but that means they sit pretty close to the front beam between the shroud and the beam. My bigger son and I are rarely on the same side of the boat in order to balance it. It would have to blow pretty good to have all our weight on the same side.
You moving across the back shouldn't be hard at all. If I can do anyone can.
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Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
1982 Prindle 18
1986 Hobie 17
1982 Prindle 16
1980 Prindle 16(mostly)
1976 Prindle 16(mostly)
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook.
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Posted: Jul 29, 2010 - 08:12 PM
I sail a lot with two big men and two 7-10 year olds. It is a little much to have everyone on one side. You have to spread the mass around the tramp depending on the wind to get a nice trim. -
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Posted: Jul 29, 2010 - 09:29 PM
If you have testosterone left and its a good deal buy the Prindle. If you are ready to eat oatmeal three times a day and wonder where you left your dentures buy the wave or Getaway. On their worst day a Prindle is better than a Hobie.
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Nacra 5.2
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Posted: Jul 30, 2010 - 12:14 AM
Well it's not quite that bad, the Getaway is still a fun boat. With a light crew it will still go but doesn't fly a hull like the Prindle which is ligher, has more sail area and less drag. A Getaway will still kick most dinghies though and can beat some cats if sailed right. The Prindle is definitely a big step up in performance though!
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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Jul 30, 2010 - 10:35 AM
Hobie's are built like tanks and you can get parts way easier (but not much breaks!) not to mention the support from Hobie is unmatched by any other Cat builder. As for peformance the Getaway is not built for that if you want the speed get the Hobie 18 but daggerboards are a pain in the ass! The Prindle 18 may be nice but Hobie support, parts & durability are unmatched! And I own a Nacra.
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Posted: Aug 03, 2010 - 09:21 PM
Hi Edchris177. I thought I'd responded to your message, but don't see it, so here goes again. Yes, I'm Canadian, with a cottage on Buck Lake -- about 40km north of Kingston. Just off the Rideau system, so not a big lake (not like the finger lakes in New York). Let's say I do take it to L. Ontario a couple of times a year. How long will it take to rig (including stepping the mast obviously)? Thanks for your good advice. -
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Posted: Aug 03, 2010 - 09:54 PM
Hi folks, thanks for all the great advice so far. I rented a Hobie 18 on the weekend (sailed it in Kingston harbour on Lake Ontario). I enjoyed it, now understand why everyone says daggerboards are a pain. Also, I was reminded of one of the reasons I want to buy a Catamaran: less tippy and therefore less scary to my young boys! I've also confirmed that the Hobie I've seen on my finger lake is actually a Getaway. I may have a chance to test sail it next weekend. I can see the Getaway would be nice and comfortable, but I sense that my young boys (8 and 11) are going to prefer something more exciting, so I'm still considering the Prindle18. I'll see the Prindle later this week.
Here are the questions that are now on my mind, feel free to share any thoughts
- I learned on the weekend that Cats don't point very well! Will a Prindle18 point better than a Getaway? It takes my neighbour with the Getaway about 6-7 tacks to sail upwind in the channel to get to the basin on the windward end of our island?
- My understanding is that Prindle is no longer in business? If I can find a decent marina that services Cats, should they be able to source whatever parts I will need?
- Given that a Prindle18 is lighter than a Hobie18, I imagine it's easier to capsize, but also easier to right?
- Can I sail a Prindle 18 solo? Up to what wind strength? (I weigh 150 lbs)
- Somebody pointed me to a site (earlier in this thread), full of great info on comparing BeachCats, and with useful things to watch out for in a used boat. If anyone has any thoughts on what to watch out for in a used Prindle18, I'm all ears
Thanks folks, I'll keep you posted -
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Posted: Aug 03, 2010 - 10:18 PM
you would be so lucky to sail a prindle 18. the boys and you will have a blast...simplicity speaks volumes for fun. no you won't point as high as a nacra, yes, prindle parts are available easily, yes the prindle is lighter but always keep the main sheet in your hand!
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bill harris
hattiesburg, mississippi
prindle 16- "BLUE RIBBON"
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Posted: Aug 03, 2010 - 11:57 PM
The Prindle 18 is a great first catamaran.
I recently purchased a 1982 P18 with the original sails, in great condition, and it was a blast out on Delaware bay this past weekend. Two adults and two small children is workable, but I could feel the weight. We had about 700 lbs at one point, and it was still a fun ride.
The boat is really light for the size, and it really takes off in the right conditions. This is my first catamaran and I never felt out of control. It was actually easier to sail than my Sunfish in many ways.
Buy the P18, and you will not regret it.
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Posted: Aug 04, 2010 - 05:19 PM
Thanks Brett. Can I ask what you spent?
Other BeachCats -- any thoughts on what's a good price for a P18 in good condition? I'll find out tomorrow night what kind of condition it's in
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Posted: Aug 04, 2010 - 06:51 PM
The price range can vary quite a bit depending on the seller. I paid $800 for mine talk down from a $1000 but I had to put a new/used tramp on it right away. I probably sunk about another $800 the first year but the boat had pretty much everything to sail it but the tramp. Most of it was vests new trap lines trailer lights and tires.
I got a good deal I think but knowing what I know now I could see the same boat with a little better conditioned extras going for $1800-$2000.
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Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
1982 Prindle 18
1986 Hobie 17
1982 Prindle 16
1980 Prindle 16(mostly)
1976 Prindle 16(mostly)
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook.
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