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Newbie needs advice - I have a few specific requirements

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p18houstontx

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Aug 03, 2010

Last visit: Aug 05, 2010

Posts: 8
Posted: Aug 04, 2010 - 03:06 AM

Hello all,

I stumbled onto this forum two days ago, and feel like a kid in a candy store! So much information here - it's hard to digest even a fraction of it.

I am looking to buy my first multihull (catamaran or trimaran). Either for myself (solo - 190lbs) or my son (solo - 120lbs) or dual (310lbs). All of us have zero multihull experience.

My primary reasons for getting into multihulls are:

(1) my kid is 14, has so far loved my Precision-18 monohull, can handle it well even in the typical mid-afternoon squalls in Galveston Bay. However I am getting a sense it is not enough of an adrenaline rush for him. For all his efforts at learning (ASA-101 graduate) and helping me, I feel I owe him something faster & exciting. Soon he will also want to show-off to his friends and I better get him something he will be excited about all the time.

(2) It's a pain to rig and de-rig my Precision-18. It would take me about a hour each way. I got so fed-up that I bit the bullet and started renting mast-up storage with a decent/steep boat ramp at $100/mo (I think its steep, but know of no other cheaper mast-up options in my area - open for suggestions).

So my primary requirements are:

(1) Enough excitement to a keep a teen hooked on it (a MUST)

(2) Not too-difficult to sail singlehanded (a MUST)

(3) Able to setup and breakdown singlehanded (a MUST)

(4) Able to launch from a beach/ramp singlehanded (a MUST)

(5) Be able to right it after a knock-down (with help of bags/poles/whatever as needed) by a 14yr old 120lb kid

(6) Able to carry dad and son (310lbs combined) plus overnight camping gear with adequate performance.

(7) Be able to navigate narrow twisting boating channel (e.g. Clear Lake to Galveston Bay) with heavy boat traffic under sail alone because channel may be too long for paddling (prefer no engines unless absolutely needed).

So far I think the WETA (trimaran) fits my bill perfectly but its too expensive ($12K with trailer). The Windrider-17 (trimaran) fits my requirements quite well too but I have read posts where people say it's not exciting enough or may not point too well.

After the Windrider-17, choice 2 is Nacra-5.8 or Prindle-19. Not sure how difficult it would be to launch them single-handedly, then sail them single-handedly.

Third choices are Hobie-Wave or Hobie-Gateway. Not sure if they would have enough thrill factor.

So what do y'all think? Please share your thoughts with me. Am I totally off the wall here? Please recommend some multihulls that would fit my requirements.

Thanks as always for your comments and feedback!
yurdle

Rank: Mate

Registered: Aug 22, 2007

Last visit: Jan 07, 2015

Posts: 742
Posted: Aug 04, 2010 - 03:38 AM

I don't think you're going to step the mast on a P19 or 5.8 solo, although they're fast as hell. A hobie wave won't cut it for the thrill factor, not even close.

To fit your criteria, since you didn't list price, you've basically described an F16 to a T, but any boats around that size w/ a carbon stick would probably work.

--
Rob
OKC
Pile of Nacra parts..
--
p18houstontx

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Aug 03, 2010

Last visit: Aug 05, 2010

Posts: 8
Posted: Aug 04, 2010 - 03:57 AM

yurdleI don't think you're going to step the mast on a P19 or 5.8 solo, although they're fast as hell. A hobie wave won't cut it for the thrill factor, not even close.

To fit your criteria, since you didn't list price, you've basically described an F16 to a T, but any boats around that size w/ a carbon stick would probably work.

What is a F16? Ideally I would like to spend no more than 5K since I have seen Windrider-17s around that price range, but I am flexible on the budget.
yurdle

Rank: Mate

Registered: Aug 22, 2007

Last visit: Jan 07, 2015

Posts: 742
Posted: Aug 04, 2010 - 04:45 AM

An F16 is a boat that costs more than 5k. Maybe a nacra 5.5 uni if you could find one would fit your needs.

--
Rob
OKC
Pile of Nacra parts..
--
p18houstontx

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Aug 03, 2010

Last visit: Aug 05, 2010

Posts: 8
Posted: Aug 04, 2010 - 04:48 AM

yurdleI don't think you're going to step the mast on a P19 or 5.8 solo, although they're fast as hell. A hobie wave won't cut it for the thrill factor, not even close.

To fit your criteria, since you didn't list price, you've basically described an F16 to a T, but any boats around that size w/ a carbon stick would probably work.

Since your post I spent the last hour researching F16 class on Wikipedia and such. However I cannot really see any F16 boats in the US except the Falcon F16 (new US$15000+).

I agree with you that this class of boats (or similar) does seem to fit my requirements and I would like to know what specific models are available in the new and used market here in the USA.

Thank you for your guidance. Truly appreciate it (and so will my kid).
erice

Rank: Mate

Registered: Feb 19, 2008

Last visit: Aug 26, 2023

Posts: 671
Posted: Aug 04, 2010 - 04:49 AM

for a 1st cat look for something like a 2nd hand getaway for a good price

sail it for a year or 2 to better work out your wish list

and then sell it for pretty much what you bought it for
p18houstontx

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Aug 03, 2010

Last visit: Aug 05, 2010

Posts: 8
Posted: Aug 04, 2010 - 05:24 AM

ericefor a 1st cat look for something like a 2nd hand getaway for a good price

sail it for a year or 2 to better work out your wish list

and then sell it for pretty much what you bought it for

I was under the impression that the Hobie Gateway cannot be setup/broke down single-handed, and neither could be launched off the beach single handed. Perhaps I am mistaken. Could you please clarify?

And how fast does the Gateway go? Not theoretical maximums but just what normal sailors have experienced in 10-12 kt winds. Just some ball-park numbers?

Thanks for your suggestion. If the Gateway can be rigged/launched singlehanded without fuss, and sailed singlehanded, and can provide over 10kts speed in average conditions then it would certainly fit my requirements. The question is "will it?"
p18houstontx

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Aug 03, 2010

Last visit: Aug 05, 2010

Posts: 8
Posted: Aug 04, 2010 - 05:29 AM

yurdleAn F16 is a boat that costs more than 5k. Maybe a nacra 5.5 uni if you could find one would fit your needs.

Come-on! Please give me some F16 models to think about, then I can go online and see how much the used ones cost. Like I said, I am flexible, to the point of plucking down 12K for a WETA if I cannot find anything else

(not to say I know a lot about WETA - I am sure a lot of research would have to be made to justify spending that kind of big money).

Thanks again!
p18houstontx

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Aug 03, 2010

Last visit: Aug 05, 2010

Posts: 8
Posted: Aug 04, 2010 - 05:32 AM

ericefor a 1st cat look for something like a 2nd hand getaway for a good price

sail it for a year or 2 to better work out your wish list

and then sell it for pretty much what you bought it for

I see you are a WETA sailor. What do you think about the tri? Like I said in my opening post, it's my no. 1 choice. However since you presumably sail it - often I hope - would you think it meets my requiremets? So far all my knowledge if WETA comes from online research and one phone call to the dealer.

Thanks!
MN3

Rank: Master Chief

Registered: Jun 20, 2006

Last visit: May 22, 2024

Posts: 7089
Posted: Aug 04, 2010 - 09:19 AM

p18houstontx
yurdleAn F16 is a boat that costs more than 5k. Maybe a nacra 5.5 uni if you could find one would fit your needs.

Come-on! Please give me some F16 models to think about, then I can go online and see how much the used ones cost. Like I said, I am flexible, to the point of plucking down 12K for a WETA if I cannot find anything else

(not to say I know a lot about WETA - I am sure a lot of research would have to be made to justify spending that kind of big money).

Thanks again!

f16 Blades are made at vectorworks in florida i think.

the new vipers (and older) are amazing... but i wouldnt purchase a 20k race rocket for my kid to sail/break
yurdle

Rank: Mate

Registered: Aug 22, 2007

Last visit: Jan 07, 2015

Posts: 742
Posted: Aug 04, 2010 - 12:21 PM

The only used F16's I've seen are a couple taipan's, which might be the best fit for your criteria anyway. I'm not sure how durable they are though (compared to a teenager). F16s are all relatively new and people don't seem to part with them often.

--
Rob
OKC
Pile of Nacra parts..
--
TurboCat

Rank: Mate

Registered: May 30, 2007

Last visit: Jun 28, 2011

Posts: 101
Posted: Aug 04, 2010 - 02:28 PM

Your best bet is to come down to surfside beach one weekend when there's a large group of us down sailing and take a ride on different boats and watch/help set a few of them up. Register at tcdyc.com

I would go out on a few boats before i made a decision.

Most weeknds we have a pretty good group of boats to choose from such as
Prindle 18-2, Prindle 19MX, Inter17R/F17, Nacra 5.5, a few F18's, Hobie 16 and getaway, etc

edited by: TurboCat, Aug 04, 2010 - 07:29 PM
Quarath

Rank: Mate

Registered: Jul 06, 2008

Last visit: Jul 19, 2018

Posts: 986
Posted: Aug 04, 2010 - 04:53 PM

You might consider a couple boats. Get a Hobie 14 or 16 for your son to solo and and something like the getaway for those camping trips and for dad to sail solo while the son sails the 14/16.

I would love to get a smaller boat for my oldest to sail on his own when we go as he seems to be pretty interested in it. I'd let him sail my P(rindle)18 by himself but I don't think he could right it. That's something I need to work on is getting setup with righting bag and such for others to use on my boat.

A lot of bigger boats can still be solo rigged with additional equipment (gin pole setup) to help raise the mast.

--
Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
1982 Prindle 18
1986 Hobie 17
1982 Prindle 16
1980 Prindle 16(mostly)
1976 Prindle 16(mostly)
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook.
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mma600psi

Rank: Mate

Registered: Mar 08, 2008

Last visit: Feb 05, 2017

Posts: 247
Posted: Aug 04, 2010 - 05:15 PM

Quote(7) Be able to navigate narrow twisting boating channel (e.g. Clear Lake to Galveston Bay) with heavy boat traffic under sail alone because channel may be too long for paddling (prefer no engines unless absolutely needed).

Agreed. I have only used getaways here and there, but I really like them. I use to have a H16 and now sail a H21SE..maybe Ill trade it for a getaway?

H16 might be a bit much to solo sail with 120lb crew, unless you really can depower it and know your limits.

also...tacking in a narrow channel with traffic sounds a little hairy....
(7) Be able to navigate narrow twisting boating channel (e.g. Clear Lake to Galveston Bay) with heavy boat traffic under sail alone because channel may be too long for paddling (prefer no engines unless absolutely needed).
DamonLinkous

Rank: Administrator

Registered: Jul 19, 2001

Last visit: Oct 31, 2024

Posts: 3445
Posted: Aug 04, 2010 - 06:32 PM

Good advice here, best is by TurboCat, get with the locals and try out different boats.

I don't know why a Hobie 16 wouldn't be a great first cat for you and son. It's worked out well for 100,000 plus new boat buyers and countless used buyers. They are widely available and you can get one in really good condition for your budget.

A well trained 120 pound sailor can solo sail a Hobie 16 or any of the smaller boats, righting them will be a problem, so knowing the wind limits and watching the weather is extremely important.

--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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yurdle

Rank: Mate

Registered: Aug 22, 2007

Last visit: Jan 07, 2015

Posts: 742
Posted: Aug 04, 2010 - 06:40 PM

damonAdminGood advice here, best is by TurboCat, get with the locals and try out different boats.

I don't know why a Hobie 16 wouldn't be a great first cat for you and son. It's worked out well for 100,000 plus new boat buyers and countless used buyers. They are widely available and you can get one in really good condition for your budget.

A well trained 120 pound sailor can solo sail a Hobie 16 or any of the smaller boats, righting them will be a problem, so knowing the wind limits and watching the weather is extremely important.

I totally agree, but since he left off price it seemed the F16s technically fit better.

A P18 would most likely work just fine as well, he'd just have to rig something to step the mast.

--
Rob
OKC
Pile of Nacra parts..
--
MN3

Rank: Master Chief

Registered: Jun 20, 2006

Last visit: May 22, 2024

Posts: 7089
Posted: Aug 04, 2010 - 06:44 PM

QuoteA well trained 120 pound sailor can solo sail a Hobie 16 or any of the smaller boats, righting them will be a problem, so knowing the wind limits and watching the weather is extremely important.

one of our fleet sailors has a 16 year old. he has been sailing for many years. I owned a h18 a few years back and the real reason i sold it and upgraded to a 5.5 was that little stinker would beat me all the time.

he was about 120 lbs, knew how to sail, and esp where to put his weight. He made light work of flying a hull between 100's of powerboats, beat me to the beach, and all the time, made it look sooooo easy.

the one thing i would say, is ... he was fearless.. i never once saw him bat an eye about going out solo in 20+. He crews for his dad often in races and just windy days when his dad needs weight onboard...

my point is... teenagers have no "wind limits" so parental judgment is a good thing here.. I have seen this kids h16 on its side a dozen times, usually he isn't even on it.. its just parked, sheeted and flips (cause teens dont care)
DamonLinkous

Rank: Administrator

Registered: Jul 19, 2001

Last visit: Oct 31, 2024

Posts: 3445
Posted: Aug 04, 2010 - 06:49 PM

Good selection of Hobie 16's in the classifieds right now, try this search and put in your zip code to see how far away each of them is.

http://www.thebeachcats.c…1&si=hobie+16&what=title

--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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DamonLinkous

Rank: Administrator

Registered: Jul 19, 2001

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Posted: Aug 04, 2010 - 06:52 PM

Actually I need to change my advice, I just realized your username is p18houstontx which means you need to buy a Prindle 18, otherwise it will be too confusing later on.

--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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erice

Rank: Mate

Registered: Feb 19, 2008

Last visit: Aug 26, 2023

Posts: 671
Posted: Aug 04, 2010 - 07:32 PM

if you have the $12k for boat and trailer the weta is a great boat

light,light,light 2 part carbon mast is SO much easier to raise than the mast on my nacra 5.2

i've never been able to solo right the nacra by myself, have various stalled righting bag and righting pole projects waiting for completetion, but the 1st time i flipped the weta it turtled immediately, which is a good thing as the wind hardly moved it at all as i flooded the float and rolled it back up again

a medium breeze will see the nacra quickly hit it's normal top speed of 15 knots

the weta is a tad slower at 13knots

both boats can go faster but all the moons need to be in alignment

the nacra is a bit more exciting as it sails best on the edge, but while that is fun for me the family find it a bit daunting

they prefer to come out on the less threatening weta where they can go sit just behind the mast in the main hull during tacks gybes etc. being boomless too it's a weight off my mind carry kids and noobs on it

tacks and gybes in much less space than a cat so channel work and sailing around moored boats easier

the roller furling gennaker is a blast too esp. on the weta which transforms into a planning skiff with no floats or bow in the water and an hops along spraying water everywhere

lots of good youtube videos out there

can't think of any similar boat that handles 1, 2 or 3 people as easily

go find a dealer and get a ride

in both these videos the boat's are probably going about 13knots and the helm isn't breaking a sweat

sailing the nacra at top speed is quite a bit more work

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxSK1-8Ik0Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vy6GRRvCaTY&feature=related

edited by: erice, Aug 05, 2010 - 09:36 AM