The other day i turtled, in about 10 foot of water. Mast stuck in the muck. It didn't help that my first timer friend found shelter on the boom. Any ways it seems like a mast float would save my life form time to time. but nobody has them from what i have seen. Are they not cool? Also, when i paint my H18 this fall i wanted to get a new tramp too. whats your preference vinyl of mesh? would a black tramp get too hot?
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Nacra 6.0 NA
Ogden Dunes, IN
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Mast floats?
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Posted: Aug 17, 2010 - 03:15 PM
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Posted: Aug 17, 2010 - 04:12 PM
I have turtled twice in water less than 30 feet, the length of my mast, & stuck it in the mud. Both times were due to new crew holding onto the mast.
The bay I am on, is mostly 5-20 feet deep, so I can stick it in the mud pretty much anywhere, until I get around the point & into the open chuck.
I don't worry about it. If the mast is lying in the mud on a shallow angle, it will come out as soon as you hike out to right it, & float just near the surface,(as long as it is sealed properly).
If you turtle in deeper water, so the mast is nearly vertical it might take a bit of work to get it loose. Two of us stood on the transom, that rotated the cat, allowing the mast to come up. You might have to wait for the wind to swing the cat, pivoting around the mast tip, depending on what angle you hit the mud at. After it comes horizontal, just swim out to the tip & slosh the crud off, then right the boat.
There are some Mcgyver mast floats, but so far I haven't found I needed one on my N5.7
edited by: Edchris177, Aug 17, 2010 - 03:14 PM
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Posted: Aug 17, 2010 - 04:26 PM
unless you are racing in class races (that require stock tramps), i see NO reason for a solid tramp. they will catch wind when your on your side... possibly making righting harder.. definatly making your boat sail sideways faster (when capsized) and will puddle water on your tramp (i prefer not to sit in a puddle).
Yes black mesh will get warm... if not hot.. but a splash of water and its fine. -
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Posted: Aug 17, 2010 - 05:06 PM
Andrew, I'm not sure the solid tramp will dcatch more wind than mesh.
Years ago we did wind tunnel tests on solid truck tailgates & those web mesh ones. The solid gate was actually less resistance. It formed an "air bubble" in the box of the truck, that allowed the air moving over the cab to flow better.
Early in my jet career I flew a Citation II biz jet. The speed brakes were panels that extended from the upper surface of the wing, & they were more holes than solid metal. We questioned the effectiveness vis-a-vis solid panels. The engineers got back to us & said wind tunnel testing confirmed the swiss cheese look created more drag. Aparently the more holes, the more surface area that "shreds" the airflow, resulting in greater drag.
My tramp is a very tight mesh, but it does allow water to seep through fairly quickly. I agree, sitting in a puddle is no fun, even if it is a warm one.
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Posted: Aug 17, 2010 - 05:08 PM
we had three sailors and a volunteer attempting to right us. it wouldn't budge. and im not worried about getting stuck. im worried about completely turtling when im in over my mast height which is every where on lake Michigan. and the nearest boat might be 5 miles away and/or a 1000ft freighter.
And Andrew does the water splash through the mesh?
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Nacra 6.0 NA
Ogden Dunes, IN
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Posted: Aug 17, 2010 - 05:25 PM
i would have to GUESS that is at high speed.. but i certainly have no proof of such. if it is the case, why not make mesh sails? :) -
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Posted: Aug 17, 2010 - 05:27 PM
a bit. you can get moist from a good splash, but it also depends on the boat/amount of freeboard (hull height).
i had a h18 that was much wetter than my current mystere as it sat much lower in the water. -
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Posted: Aug 17, 2010 - 07:55 PM
Why are tennis wind screens made of mesh?
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Posted: Aug 17, 2010 - 11:47 PM
I'm with Andrew. vinyl of mesh parachute
Seriously though, mast floats? are they for newbs?
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Ogden Dunes, IN
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Posted: Aug 17, 2010 - 11:58 PM
Mast floats are for newbs, at least commercial ones. First thing to do, get some good marine sealant(preferably clear for aesthetics but white will do) and seal the top of the mast, seal around the top casting and any tangs and rivets. Don't seal castings and rivets near the bottom (you want any water that gets trapped in there to be able to escape). Now you have a buoyant mast that will help a quite bit, but probably won't make up for a silly crew who rides the boat down!
Next go and get one or two tether balls or larger blow up boat bumpers and when you get silly people riding with you attach these to the head board at the top of the sail. This will give you the same boyancy as a commercial mast float for about $20 and keep you out of the muck for the most part. They will look a little silly bouncing around up there but if anyone says anything about flying two tether balls from the mast, just tell them your boat has bigger balls than them!! :)
My lake is only about 8 ft deep and we once stuck our Hobie 16 mast about 5 feet in the muck. Luckily this was before comp tips, but it still took us 2 power boats and about 3 hours to get it out. Not something I ever want to do again.
Oh and I wouldn't have anything but a mesh tramp. So nice not sitting in a puddle.
edited by: Wolfman, Aug 17, 2010 - 11:00 PM
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Dave Bonin
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Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Aug 18, 2010 - 01:26 AM
I used to think mast floats were for noobes. But I single hand my Tornado and don't want Lake Patrol vhelping me right. Put a Hobie Baby Bob painted silver on my mast. Next thing local dentist with a "T" did same (he capsized once & turtled). My 14 year old daughter has one on her P-16 as she single hands. No difference in speed noticed--she still wins all races. They're about $120 & can be easily installed.
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Posted: Aug 18, 2010 - 12:05 PM
My son (175 lbs) was soloing and turned my Hobie 18 over about 100 Yards offshore on the South Carolina coast. Mast was sealed, no comptip, no "GoofyBob" on top. The boat was on its side for at least 30 mins and the mast did not even consider sinking. He was on and off the hull during that time.
I swam out to help, while he was using the vinyl tramp to catch wind and push him closer to shore. No water, or no detectable water got in the mast.
After this, I am convinced I wont need one of those things on my mast. But I'll need to get him a righting bag if he sails solo much more.
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David
Memphis, TN
'84 Hobie 18
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Posted: Aug 18, 2010 - 09:43 PM
thanks wolfman. ill check it out and see if its sealed. a guy on my lake has two boat bumpers tied up there they look like hell. what would be the ultimate is one of those self inflating PFDs.
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Ogden Dunes, IN
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Posted: Aug 18, 2010 - 10:17 PM
Why are you planning to paint your boat? Is it damaged or you want to change the color?
I think Hobie Cat is the only company still making solid vinyl tramps and they only sell white.
Pros:
- Much cheaper than the factory mesh $439 vs $579
- The vinyl tramp is nearly indestructible, plenty of 30 year old vinyl tramps still sailing.
- They don't stretch at all so can be laced extremely tight.
- depending on the conditions they can seem like a dryer ride
Cons
- They only come in white
- Once water comes over the front beam it can pool where you are sitting
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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN
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Posted: Aug 18, 2010 - 10:19 PM
No, don't worry about that, the tramp is plastic and air.
Now black beams and mast, they can get really hot
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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN
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Posted: Aug 18, 2010 - 11:41 PM
well my yellow is real faded and it would be nice to hide some fiber glass repairs. i was thinking orange with tiger stripes? jungle cat. and i got a 29 year old yellow vinyl tramp. i have the "slo sails and canvas" brochure here they say mesh is cheaper.
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Posted: Aug 19, 2010 - 12:31 AM
Properly painting is a huge undertaking, so first try some serious wet-sanding and polishing, you might be amazed how good it looks. But like I said before, if you have big ugly damage that can't be "buffed out" then painting is always an option.
Just wanted to mention it might not be necessary, a lot of sailors don't realize how thick the gel coat is on these boats or that they aren't painted.
When I said vinyl is cheaper I was only comparing factory vinyl vs factory mesh. Aftermarket mesh is usually cheaper than factory anything.
No one makes aftermarket vinyl tramps.
Be careful of SLO, check this thread.
http://www.thebeachcats.c…ewtopic-topic-11657.html
I'll plug my advertiser now
Tampa Cats Trampolines - Hobie 18 for $229
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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN
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Posted: Aug 19, 2010 - 11:54 AM
Windage and weight! if you don't care... then cool... I would :)
the ultimate would be (IMHO) a balloon that can be deployed upon need (via an air hose in the mast, to a control button at the base). Those self enflating pfd's may self inflate in a sprinkle/rain
i had a friend whos did, inside a dry bag (due to condensation).. he had to cut it out :)
edited by: andrewscott, Aug 19, 2010 - 11:55 AM -
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Posted: Aug 19, 2010 - 12:16 PM
I have a baby bob and all mounting hardware if your interested. PM me if you want it.
If i was sailing a brand new carbon 20 or a wildcat i would rather be shot than rock a baby bob on my mast just because of the hard time id get on the beach. On an older boat i wouldnt feel "Uncool" running one. Its another piece protection and when your buddy on the F18 is turtle due to a leaky mast who is the "Uncool" one then? A well sealed mast acts the same as the baby bob but you can never tell when the sealant is breaking down and its time to reseal so the baby bob is a fool proof safety item.
We sail offshore from the beach in open water so for us our safety is our first goal so thats why i dont mind the bob on boats. It may look goofy but it works and is just one more cheap item that ensures your going to make it home in one piece.
When you go to a local regatta and dont want the :Noob" look you can always remove a couple bolts and throw it in the car. I have a baby bob on one of my masts for a P19MX thats specifically for a "Flip it day" or what some would call a "Find the limits day" -
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Posted: Aug 19, 2010 - 12:28 PM
you can always take off the 2 shackles (stay and trap) and place your mast in the water for a few minutes to check for leaks.
edited by: andrewscott, Aug 19, 2010 - 12:28 PM
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