For all you that say... just jump in, get a big powerful boat... start off big.. and learn how to handle it .. I say... IF YOU BUY A BOAT ABOVE YOUR SKILLSET... do NOT sail it in open waters until you can right it yourself.. or at least get the bows in the wind, or at least get your righting bag out.. and ready to right it when help arives.
Yesterday, in the gulf, being chased home by thunderstorms, i spent 30 minutes yelling at a cat that was turned over. The first time i sailed up to him i yelled "get on the hull and hike out".. he didnt, by my next pass he was not bows into the wind so i yelled "get your bows in the wind"... third pass he still wasn't ready, 4th pass i yelled get your righting bag out.. (by this time he was sterns into the wind". this kept going on.. he fumbled with the bag and the line on for 5 more munites... all the while the thunder was growing louder.
2x another cat and i almost collided trying to get to the mast to try and give it a hand up... neither time was he really even close to ready.
30 minutes into this... i finally yelled.. "you have 3 minutes to get it up, or on my boat.. i am not staying here in a lighting storm"
He still wasn't ready and the other cat was still there.. i said "good luck" and left.. my consciene wouldn't let me leave so i turned around... I then saw a powerboater was now trying to help him right it (still sterns to the wind) and i left.
Later, he came up to me on the beach and said "why all the yelling?" I responded with "Get a h14 and learn how to right it."
It is unfair, to sail in open gulf, with storms all around (70% change of storms) above your skillset, on a boat well above your ability to handle/right and put other peoples boats/lives in a bad spot. If you MUST get a boat way above your ability... stay in the shallow section of the pool utill you can inflate your own waterwings....
I have had troubles righting my boat solo, so i now carry 2 bags.... we all need help at times, but risking other peoples lives/boats is not accceptable
edited by: andrewscott, Aug 23, 2010 - 08:37 PM
Sailing above your skillset
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Posted: Aug 23, 2010 - 12:08 PM
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Posted: Aug 23, 2010 - 12:35 PM
True, true and true. And even expereinced folks get in over their head with weather....in his case, he's new and didn't know what he was into.
You could offer some time/lessons sailing together a bit? -
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Posted: Aug 23, 2010 - 12:44 PM
5 passes to help, getting close enough to the mast to grab it, storm rolling in. I assume fairly heavy wind, were you solo? Thats some impressive manuvering, especially if you were solo....
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David
Memphis, TN
'84 Hobie 18
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Posted: Aug 23, 2010 - 12:53 PM
Andrew is an impressive guy.
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Nacra 5.2
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Posted: Aug 23, 2010 - 12:54 PM
Completely agree! I've been sailing my big bad boat for 2 years (and an H16 in my youth) and had some serious problems on by 10 km x 10 km lake this spring. There were several mechanical problems but I still realized I wasn't prepared. Fortunately I provided my own backup in my dad and uncle who were on the beach with a power boat. Worst thing that could have happened is that I got stranded on the wrong shore but it was still scary as hell and I am just getting my confidence back now. I can't imaging being in that situation when the next stop could be England!
I would hope that common sense would prevail and the person would at least have tried righting it before taking it into such dangerous waters or at the very least stayed close to shore. Heck at least buy a book or read some of the info here before taking it out! I have a huge inland ocean within 2 hours of me (Lake Winnipeg) and I know I don't know how to sail in that so I wont until I find someone to teach me.
I hope I haven't given any advice like just buy an 18 footer and go out an sail. But I may have with the implication (as with everything) being that you should start off with baby steps and maybe take the boat to a small lake or bay to learn first. I will definitely be clearer in this from here on in, that is not something I would want on my concience!
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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Aug 23, 2010 - 12:59 PM
Coastrat and I was discussing this problem about righting. Just don't flip the boat seemed to be the best idea.
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Nacra 5.2
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Posted: Aug 23, 2010 - 01:07 PM
I have no interest in giving lessons. Nor am i an expert.
I suggested he get lessons before he sold his h16... we have an olympic sailor who does training on our beach, he was not interested at all. -
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Posted: Aug 23, 2010 - 01:10 PM
I was solo, but dont be to impressed, on my second attempt to grab his mast, i had to move to avoid the other cat doing the same thing, and i ran over his mast... This is not a skill i have, we do have a couple people who are good at this manover, i am not one of them.
The winds were not that bad..12-15 (few gusts above 15).
I had warned him the day before furl your jib, and dont cleat the main if you get overpowered at all... -
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Posted: Aug 23, 2010 - 01:16 PM
I agree got caught in a bad spot myself once and to be honest it can happen to anyone some of the sailors in the GT300 had to be saved by the coast gaurd things happen out of our control and if you decide to take out a 2 man boat solo it can lead to trouble fast I lost my boat over this same problem I had 2 people on my boat but a friend turtled his P18-2 boat my crew jumped off to help him and was too tired to swim back to my boat on the way back in now solo I got flipped by a big ass wave and had to swim to shore since I was throw too far away to catch my boat sailing out to sea on its side. I was pissed off because it was only the second time I had sailed that boat and I did not plan on soloing it but the guy is my close friend and I am over it but its always in my mind when anybody solo's these big boats the conditions can change quick in the gulf. Last weekend I flipped and my friend swam 5 feet away to grab a glove and could not swim back to the boat cause the wind was pushing the boat too fast another boat in our group picked him up and dropped off my P18-2 buddy to help me right my boat its dangerous in the open seas always sail with a group carry a vhf and a whistel at the minimum. I do not care about my boat if it was me Andrew I probably would have thanked you for the ride and called my insurance company when I got home catamarans are pretty cheap compared to hospital bills & funeral cost.
edited by: fa1321, Aug 23, 2010 - 12:19 PM -
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Posted: Aug 23, 2010 - 01:17 PM
Similar experience I had about a month ago but with a H16. We were about 3 miles off shore on Lake Michigan and I noticed a H16 that kept pointing into the wind and then falling off and going further off shore. I finally tacked back out to see what they were doing. They couldn't figure out how to turn their boat around. Probably 10-15mph winds with some decent chop, and a H16 can be tricky to tack in those conditions, especially with the chop.
I had to coach them through how to backwind the jib and then back out of the tack. They finally got turned around and headed back to shore. Not sure how long it would have taken them to get to Michigan, but that is where they were headed......
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Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
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Posted: Aug 23, 2010 - 01:22 PM
Ah, sailing a beachcat. Have new experiences (near death), meet interesting people (cutting you off in PWCs), see new places (like Antarctica if you can't right the boat). Why do we do this again, oh yeah, its fun! :)
edited by: Wolfman, Aug 23, 2010 - 12:24 PM
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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Aug 23, 2010 - 01:27 PM
Word..
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Rob
OKC
Pile of Nacra parts..
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Posted: Aug 23, 2010 - 02:53 PM
Sums it up!!!
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Posted: Aug 23, 2010 - 04:47 PM
Yeah we had 370lbs of righting moment on that H16 yesterday...lol. I would have given a benjamin for that righting bag we left on the beach :)
Waves definitely complicate things - but I agree about growing into your boat. I remember trying to get that H14T recovered from a full on turtle...pretty tough solo the first couple of times...yeah I had that much practice
and that was on a relatively calm lake days - and I was totally self taught aka trial and ERROR!
Insert my thanks to Rick White here
I remember my errors:
unsealed mast
no righting line
ohh..and uncleat the friggin sail
Hence the moniker of turtle cat - good thing my lake was DEEP :) On my learning curve, if I had started in the ocean - my name would probably be shark bait...HA! -
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Posted: Aug 23, 2010 - 09:48 PM
word turtlecat, except in my case it wasterror. decided to go for a quick sail over at the little pond we have here on Friday, did not check the weather in my excitement of having some wind. Just got the sail up and a awesome electrical storm blew in, wind switched from off-shore to on-shore, picked up real strong to about 20 mph, and I'm stuck holding the bridle wires trying to keep the cat faced into the wind. I'm chest deep in water, I cant reach the main halyard to drop the sail and everytime lightning hit close by, I was getting zapped by electrical discharge holding onto those bridal wires. and boy, was that lightning hitting close. Finally walked the cat away from the concrete ramp, backed the cat onto somewhat of a "beach", dropped the mainsail and ran for my truck, pure terror. Won't do that again>
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TurboHobo
H14T
H16
P18
G-Cat 5.0
P16
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Posted: Aug 23, 2010 - 11:41 PM
Ah dude! That would be terror. Turtling in that situation sounds pretty good - If you need a hand with that - its my specialty
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Posted: Aug 25, 2010 - 12:33 AM
you guys are funny!
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Repairable P18
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Posted: Aug 26, 2010 - 10:21 AM
When I was younger on a small like I use to turtle my H16 for fun when there was little wind and it was hot out. Created a great semi-submerged lounge chair with the tramp. Could always get it back up easily with 2 people. Just had to remember to remove the cooler from the front cooler rack before turtling, so we had cold refreshment.
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Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
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Posted: Aug 26, 2010 - 11:28 AM
I miss my HT14...I could take that puppy out in almost any wind and knock her over and pop right back up. My 5.8NA is another story. (Thank goodness for our beach rescue service and a helpful mast tip lift from time to time.) Thinking about a mast float for next season.(It is not dorky to have one as many of our best sailors have put em on.)
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