http://www.apsltd.com/p-3178-57mm-carbo-ratchet-single-150-cam-matic-becket.aspx
That's what I use, don't need auto rachets for the jib blocks.
--
Rob
OKC
Pile of Nacra parts..
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Nacra 5.0 Questions
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Posted: Sep 10, 2010 - 03:00 PM
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Posted: Sep 10, 2010 - 03:22 PM
The old $153.85 This is what is on my boat.
http://www.murrays.com/mm…_Code=C-BL&Store_Code=MS
If I had to replace them it would be with the new carbo blocks that are cheaper.
The new $116.20
http://www.murrays.com/mm…_Code=C-BL&Store_Code=MS -
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Posted: Sep 11, 2010 - 09:18 PM
Thanks for the info guys. I am keeping the rachomatic one I have. It's the only one a local shop had, and I want to sail it this weekend. It's expensive but, oh well. Tomorrow is the maiden voyage.
A couple more questions. I was reading the nacra assembly manual, and it says the main sail is hosted and then hooked up on a hook to the top of the mast (like my Hobbie 18 was).
I was working on the boat today, and it looks like I just hook the shackle to the top of the main, raise it to the top, and then just tie the main raising line a clear to the bottom of the mast. There is no hook at the top of the mast? Is this normal? The nacra manual says there should be. This is a 1983 Nacra, per the hull.
Second, the mast sits on top of a ball as per the manual. However, the mast seems to sit high up on this ball, and is not cut out on onside like it says in the manual.
Is this a aftermarket mast or something?
Also, since the blocks are off, can someone point me to a manual on how to tie the sheets for the jib?
Thanks for the help!
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Posted: Sep 11, 2010 - 10:34 PM
My Nacra mast base looks like this. Make sure the ball is screwed all the way down, mine turns easy and I have found it not all the way down. There were two different size mast balls and bases. Only the larger size is available now. Make sure you don not have a large ball and a small mast base.
On my 5.8 the main halyard is connected to the sail with one of these.
The large ring hooks to one of these.
Something like this should be at the top of the mast.
This is the new style hook mine is only riveted to one side.
The 5.0 might be different.
edited by: skarr1, Sep 11, 2010 - 09:54 PM -
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Posted: Sep 11, 2010 - 11:52 PM
Murrays list a halyard for a 5.0 that is part wire. Maybe the wire hooks on the bottom of the mast like a Hobie.
http://www.murrays.com/mm…2-4173-50&Category_Code= -
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Posted: Sep 12, 2010 - 10:34 AM
You have an '83 model, it should be the same as my '84. There should be a 1/4" "ball" swaged onto the wire halyard. You should be able to see it about 3-4' from where the wire halyard attaches to the line portion of the halyard. When raising the sail this ball travels through the sheaves at the mast top, & comes domw the FRONT side of the mast about 3'. There is a small fork riveted to the mast. Pull the halyard til you hear it "click" & it won't pull any further, this means the sail is all the way up. As you give it that last few inches of travel, hold the halyard 1-2' in front of the mast. this allows the swaged ball to clear the fork. Now move your hand right up against the mast, keeping the halyard exactly in line with the center of the mast, & release some pressure. The ball should engage UNDER the fork & lock the sail. It really is very easy, & once you've done it, you get it every time. If it doesn't hook, something is binding the sail & it isn't all the way up. You may have to rotate the mast so you can keep the line at the center of the mast.
The mast steps were made in 1 1/4" and 1 1/2" sizes. I think your .83 uses the smaller ball, & they don't sell them anymore. I can post a photo to show how the step should sit on the ball if you need it.
The fix is to replace the mast base,(Murrays has a kit to changeover) or go to an industrial supply company,buy a bag of 20 delrin 1 1/4" balls, drill & tap them to 9/16" fine thread, & sell the others to guys with older style bases.
Philip (MUMMP)gave me this site; http://www.mcmaster.com/#plastics/=8tbkt3
Damon has the Nacra assembly manual on this site, there are 2 of them, slightly different versions. Go to the technical hepl section here at The Beachcats, there is a ton of info. Let us know how it goes.
http://www.thebeachcats.com/index.php?module=pictures&g2_itemId=35212
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Posted: Sep 12, 2010 - 04:19 PM
Here is a photo of what my mast step looks like. The bolt,(or 1/4" pin) for stepping the mast is in place. If you do not have the captive ball system, you may not have the bolt/pin. It makes for a much more secure arrangement as the mast is going up or down. The wishbone is the mast rotator on a boomless nacra.
Here is a photo of how to rig your jib blocks. I combined 2 photos to show each side, in case the explanation wasn't clear. The remaining line just lays in a coil just below the bottom of the picture. You will have an appx 3' length of 3/16" line attached to the clew of the jib. Fold the 3' line in half, place the folded end through the grommet at the jib clew, then feed the two loose ends through the loop. Even everything out & pull tight. After you hoist the jib & tension it, tie one of the loose ends of the 3/16" line to each of the small blocks using a bowline. Run a piece of 1/4" shock cord from one end of your V brace bar (below the front beam) up to the strap eye on the mast,(or through the end of the diamond wires)& over to the other end of the V brace bar. This will prevent those small blocks from hanging up on the mast base every time you tack. Make sure to run the jib lines over top of the shock cord.
edited by: Edchris177, Sep 12, 2010 - 03:21 PM
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Posted: Sep 13, 2010 - 12:00 AM
Edchris177....In looking at your pictures, I have to ask... do you leave that bolt in all the time? I use a pin while stepping the mast and immediately pull it out. I was always told that if you break a shroud or forestay and the mast comes down the bolt will be bent and bound so tightly that a sawsall will be needed to free it. The Hobie 20's have roughly the same setup, where you have to rotate the mast 90 degrees while stepping. Pain in the ass! -
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Posted: Sep 13, 2010 - 11:15 AM
You are correct. I left the bolt in as I didn't know any better. A thread a while back (I think it was Wolfman Dave/Damon)addressed the issue of how much damage could be done if you suffered a demasting with the bolt/pin in place.
I only raise mt mast once a year, & resolved to remove the bolt, but...
Thanks for the reminder, I'm going to pull it out before next sail.
On another note, those pictures of the beams you sent me. The old 500 that you sailed to death, are you interested in selling the front beam in the photo?
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Hobie 18 Magnum
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Posted: Sep 14, 2010 - 12:12 PM
Thanks for all the help guys.
With all the help here, I was able to rig the boat, and take it out for the first time Sunday and yesterday. It did great and I had a blast. Had 3 people on it, and everything worked properly, except some old ropes broke (trapeze and tramp).
Edchriss-
The bottom of my mast looks like yours in the pic, except it doesn't have the sides cut out, or any holes for pins. Likewise, the ball looks larger than that, and doesn't sit anywhere near that far in the hole. About half the ball is captured under the bottom of that necked part of the boom. I forgot to take a picture, but I will tonight. I am a bit worried, because I think if I were to capsized right now, the bottom of the mast would popped off the ball. The previous owner said he turtled it before, and never said he had that issue? I'll take a picture tonight, or soon.
Also, my Nacra is missing the wishbone on the front of the mast, and noticed the mast is rotating like crazy. Basically it follows the sail. This is slowing me down I'm sure, but then again my Nacra doesn't have the cleats like yours does on the front cross member to mount the lines to. Should it have one?
Thanks again for the input. Helps a ton!. -
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Posted: Sep 14, 2010 - 01:35 PM
IndyXC,
EC's mast base looks like the old style 1.25" and will have to be replaced when the ball finally kicks it. Sounds like yours is an even earlier one than that. I would suggest drilling a 1/4" hole in the front part of the casting for a pin during stepping. It has to go immediately under where the ball sits just to keep it from dropping under off of the
Normally you don't leave the pin in once you have stepped the mast. The shrouds and forestay keep enough tension on it that it shouldn't jump off the ball when you capsize. If it does then your shrouds aren't tight enough. The should be tightened to the hole on the adjusters that you can reach with one person hanging on the shroud and one person putting the pin in (between 150-200 lbs of pressure or thereabouts). That should give you enough tension to keep the mast in place but still allow it to rotate freely.
I believe you can get the wishbone from Murray's Marine and the cleats are just standard and are mounted to the front beam.
--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Sep 14, 2010 - 02:13 PM
The wishbone is a mast rotation device, it was optional on the boomless models. Murrays sells the part, $39
You may be able to find a used one from a parts boat, email Dan berger, he usually has lots of stuff for sale in the classified section, & is a good guy to work with. You can also ask for the cleats to mount to the front beam.
Nacra says on boomless boat the rotator is to induce rotation. I've never raced, so I'm not knowledgeable about getting every last speck of speed, but the rotation certainly does help. If you ever forget about it & have it on the wrong side, you suddenly find yourself flat on the water when all your instincts say you should be flying. The photo above is old, I don't have it rigged like that, one of the guys here,(Philip, or Ron B?)told me to tie a line to the eye strap on the beam,(just inside the cleats)then out to the end of the rotator, then back through the cleat. This gives a 2:1, & you need it. I was surprised how much force there is trying to turn the mast. In very light air I cleat both sides, it prevents the mast from banging to & fro & shaking the wind out of the sail.
Does it look like this?
This from G Amicks boat, a 5.2 that he resurrected, he has lots of pic, look in members albums, scroll down to Amick, he did a fabulous job.
Dave, I'm pretty sure he has the old style non captive base. With the ball only 1/2 in there is no way to drill & insert a pin that would hold anything. Mine is the 1 1/2" newer system. It is hard to tell size from the photo, I should have put a tape measure up against it.
Measure your ball, but be sure to measure from side to side. The ball will wear on the top where the mast works against it, the top may look a bit flattened & top to bottom measurement won't give you an accurate picture. Dave is right, the rig tension keeps the mast in place when capsized. The advantage to the newer captive system is it prevents the mast from jumping off the ball when raising or lowering. I don't know what oyur budget is, but if Dan B doesn't have a new style base for sale, Murrays sells the whole conversion kit, part 01-8002 for $160
edited by: Edchris177, Sep 14, 2010 - 01:15 PM
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Posted: Sep 14, 2010 - 03:27 PM
EC, you are correct, I didn't realize that they made a casting that shallow. I can see where the worry about it jumping off the ball would come from.
I think Dan has a couple of the new style bases but the part for the stepping pin is broken off (last time I talked to him). A consequence of forgetting to rotate the mast while unstepping. It isn't the end of the world, you can still step the mast as long as you are VERY CAREFUL about making sure it doesn't jump off the ball while you are raising the mast. It would be a cheap way to get the upgrade without spending a pile of cash, I believe the 1.5" ball will fit on the older dolphin striker rod too (someone correct me if I'm wrong).
EC, I've never kept my pin in while sailing. The only problem I can see with doing it it is that if you dismast for some reason you will immediately break the bottom casting and dolphinstriker rod. A shroud replacement then becomes a major pain. That and it looks like your ball is pretty chewed from the bolt (could also just be the picture).
Regards,
Dave
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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Sep 14, 2010 - 04:35 PM
The ball is actually pretty good, the bolt doesn't quite touch it, but yeah I've been meaning to remove it.
If you look at my base, there are two sets of holes. A small corner of the casting near the rear hole, on the opposite side is broken off. I believe the previous owner demasted, or dropped it with the pin in, then drilled the other set of holes.
If Dan has a base with only a corner missing perhaps Indy can pick one up cheap, then drill new holes on the other end.
Indy, replace those old trap lines, if they break you get dunked, & lose the dogbone($15 min). Relace the tramp with 2 pieces of low stretch/creep line. Use 3/16" line, 1/4" is fine for the side lace, but hard to fit through the slugs on the rear beam. Grab it with pliers & pull it tight, then a little more. It is probably time to replace the forestay & shrouds too. If you break one it may be way more $$$ than the cost of a new stay, & you may lose a season if you break the mast, or your head. If your trap wire have any broken strand replace them, Dave sent me a box with more than I'll use. If you need one let me know.
Dave, get back to work & quit posting on company time, lest you get busted like Andrew.
edited by: Edchris177, Sep 14, 2010 - 03:37 PM
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Posted: Sep 14, 2010 - 05:06 PM
Indy;
I loaded the photo from Image shack, that is a really nice looking boat.
You do indeed have the old style mast base. The mast won't jump off as long as the rigging is tight. Be very careful stepping/unstepping the mast. If funds are tight no need to change it,( it is safe) unless Dan can get you parts cheap. You have the old style straight spreaders, they are are not adjustable.
I can't quite make out the hardware where the bridal wires meet the forestay, looks like factory setup. It looks like there is a Davis wind Indicator there, if the vane gone, you can get replacements, or make one.
Re front beam, I see yo have the end caps, that's good, they don't make them anymore & the price was ridiculous. Nacraman57 figured out a way to build very nice ones cheap.
You have the preventer from beam ends to mast that keeps jib blocks from hanging up. You have the tiller extension.
DO-remove that line from the bottom of the dolphin striker rod to the trailer. Tie it to the end of the V-brace bar(if you really need it)or better yet around the end of the beam, you should be just able to get a line through the tramp at the corners. If you give that line a yank as is, you WILL bend the DS rod,($60).
I wouldn't even think of painting that boat, just clean it with Barkeepers friend & buff it. You cannot cut an inspection hole in front of that beam, so you will have to fix it from outside. If the patch is really crap use really coarse sandpaper & grind it away till center is paper thin,feather out to the edges. it's easier if you have a thin layer of original as backing. Squeejee most of the resin out of your matting so you can layup 4-5 layers without the patch bulging outwards from the hull. Give it a final soft sand to remove rough spots then paint a thin layer of resin over to seal any glass you might have exposed. Then buy a couple of disposable Preval sparayers & gelcoat the patch. If you have experience with that stuff you will probably get it to nearly non noticeable. For now don't worry about the cosmetics, take it out & sail the crap out of it! You may very well put some more dings in it as you figure everything out, then you can fix them all in the off season.
edited by: Edchris177, Sep 14, 2010 - 04:08 PM
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Posted: Sep 14, 2010 - 08:02 PM
Thanks for the info again,
Here is a pic from the other side:
http://img444.imageshack.us/f/img0296r.jpg/
I wasn't able to make it out today, as I came down with a cold from freezing sailing yesterday. But EdChris from the picture, yes that is exactly what the bottom of my mast looks like. I will have to look into upgrading during the winter.
I do think the rigging isn't very tight on the shrouds. I can move the mast side to side, so it's probably not tight enough. Thanks for the tip on tighting the shrouds. I will have to center the mast, and then hand on the shrouds to tighten the mast down. This will be a good piece of mind, knowing that if I flip it the mast won't come out. This was one of main main concern last Sunday in 20 mph wind gusting to 25 mph. The stays themselves looks like they are in good shape, but for piece of mind, I will replace them.
What should I do with the forestay that is attached to the bridle wires on the front? Leave is is, or tighten it as well? Yes, the front wiring looks stock. With the exception of the jib, which is attached to the bottom of the forestay through a large carbiner which seems to work.
And I have already relased the tramp with non stretch rope, but how is important that it is super tight? I laced it and then redid it with plier, but it's not SUPER tight. Is that okay? I also need to learn some knots to tie this stuff all together.
Thanks again for the help.
Here is a picture from yesterday (wind died by the time we made it out) but i'm on the only working trapeze with my gf, and friend.
http://img545.imageshack.us/f/dsc02887w.jpg/
3 out of 4 trapeze did not work, because the lines were old, but it seems that the lines on the port side are longer than the starboard side. There seems to be no adjustment since they just attach to where the jib is, or are there?
Thank you for all the help again, much appreciated.
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Posted: Sep 14, 2010 - 08:22 PM
Here is how your traps can be rigged. All the wires from the mast hound "where the stays connect should be the same length. You can adjust the height by moving the rope stopper. You can also hook into the different holes in the rings on your boat to move about 4 inches up or down.
The mast has to be loose enough to rotate a total of over 180deg. 90 deg to each side. As the mast rotated it wraps the stay around the mast taking up slack.
PLEASE WEAR A PFD.
edited by: skarr1, Sep 14, 2010 - 07:37 PM -
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Posted: Sep 14, 2010 - 08:51 PM
Indy,
That is a nice looking boat!! The position of the forestay is the first thing you adjust. This governs the rake of the mast (the angle that the mast sits with respect to the hulls). You generally want very little mast rake for a Nacra 5.0, it should almost be straight up and down but with a little rake backwards. In the photos the positioning looks pretty good.
The shrouds govern the rig tightness. Looking at the photos your rig is REALLY loose. The shrouds should be the same length and should be in the same hole on both sides of the boat (that will keep the mast centered). You want the rig fairly tight without restricting the mast rotation.
For tramp lacing I switched to 1/8" vectran (you can use dyneema line) this year and it has REALLY improved the tightness and stiffness of the tramp and rig overall. If you follow the lacing instructions in the manuals (in the technical help gallery) you can get a super tight tramp. I ordered mine from Annapolis Performance Sailing here:
http://www.apsltd.com/p-2…3-vectrus-12-18-3mm.aspx
Just tie a bow line at one side and finish it off with 3-4 half hitches. If you follow the instructions in the manual you can get it really tight without the need for pliers or other tools.
Here are some links to the knots you need to know:
Bow Line
http://www.animatedknots.…te=www.animatedknots.com
Round Turn And 2 Half Hitches
http://www.animatedknots.…te=www.animatedknots.com
Figure 8
http://www.animatedknots.…te=www.animatedknots.com
These will cover 99% of your needs. One other useful knot to know is the Truckers Hitch:
http://www.animatedknots.…te=www.animatedknots.com
And of course coiling your rope at the end of the season`:
http://www.animatedknots.…te=www.animatedknots.com
One thing to note is that you can't melt the ends of the high tech rope with flame like you do with poly rope. I would suggest either dipping the ends in liquid electrical tape or using 3:1 shrink tubing to keep the ends from fraying. You could also probably use electrical tape in a pinch.
--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Sep 14, 2010 - 08:57 PM
You probably have the tramp fine for now,drive it hard to the end of the season, lacing it very tightly stiffens the boat.
I can't quite make out enough detail to see if the traps have the little rubber adjusters, you slide the adjuster up or down to get the height you want. The rear trap on the starboard side is assbackwards. They should be rigged from the trap wires that attach up near the mast hound,the bungee that goes through the front beam & the one under the tramp serve to keep tension on the line portion, to keep upward pressure on the hook so it doesn't come off inadvertently, & to keep them from flopping around when not in use. Also the front one keeps the end caps from being lost if the little set screw is missing. Rig them something like this.
The rubber line snubber is only a couple of bucks.
You should not be able to wobble the mast side to side or fore aft. I use the method I believe came from SKARR. Set both shrouds before you step the mast(one in its final position, the other looser)When the mast comes up, pin the forestay where you want it, crew puts on a harness & hangs out on the trap wire on the loose side, this will create slack in that shroud. Now you can easily pin that shroud to match the opposite(tighter, final position shroud) side. This will pull the mast to the rear, tensioning the forestay. Never have the mast leaning forward of center. You should have multiple holes in the forestay adjuster, experiment raking the mast aft of center a bit.
How did you make out with raisin the main, do you have the little fork near top of mast & ball on halyard? You should not be tying off the halyard at the mast base. Your should be the system on the left.
There are 2 early Nacra manual under the tech help section, they are slightly different, download them both. They are not great, you have to read carefully, but they do explain most stuff.
Enjoy the boat, don't get worked up on cosmetics, DRIVE IT HARD!
edited by: Edchris177, Sep 14, 2010 - 08:15 PM
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Hobie 18 Magnum
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Posted: Sep 14, 2010 - 09:05 PM
I think the trap on the starboard side is "temporary". He had three lines break.
I added a shock cord to the rear beam to keep the end caps from falling off. It goes through the beam and hooks to the tramp lacing. It comes in handy when I want to hold the rudders to the wind to heave to.
edited by: skarr1, Sep 14, 2010 - 08:09 PM
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