I have been going through a 1978 Solcat, which I purchased from the original owner, along with all the original equipment. The boat, used only in a local freshwater lake, has sat garaged for decades, and is in amazing shape, having been used very little. But as you can imagine, the soft rigging and trailer needed refurbishing. So I have been going through the boat and trailer, bit by bit, restoring them to their original glory.
During this process, I discovered that the stock forestay wire had obviously failed at the thimble, and the previous owner tried to repair it, which rendered it too short to use. Rather than extend it with an additional chain plate, I decided to replace the forestay, along with the rest of the 30-year-old wires. Before ordering a new wire set, I measured my bridles and shrouds, but was obviously unable to get a proper measurement for my forestay.
I purchased a standing rigging wire kit from Salty Dog Marine based on their reasonable price, (cheaper by nearly $50 than Murray’s), but decided to go with Murray’s wire lengths, based on the measurement of my OEM wires, and my conviction that the last known owner of the Solcat line (Murray’s) would be the best authority on the proper length of the missing forestay measurement:
This is what I ordered:
Shrouds = 20’ 9” (250”) 1” inch shorter than Salty Dog specs
Forestay = 18’ 3” (219”) 3” inches longer than Salty Dog specs
Bridals = 3’ 11” (47”) ¼” longer than Murray's specs, just rounded up to the closest inch
The Salty Dog wire kit arrived quickly, and was of excellent quality, but because of bad weather, I was not able to test-rig the Solcat 18 mast for about 3 weeks, (until yesterday, November 26th, 2010).
What I discovered:
With the OEM 10-hole shroud adjusters in the 4th hole down from the top, the 20’ 9” shrouds allow the mast to stand perpendicular to the boat, so they are perfect in length, allowing for the mast to move aft in rake for different sail trim angles, or forward to facilitate easy pinning of the forestay prior to tensioning the shrouds.
Unfortunately, the 18’ 3” forestay I ordered was still far too short (by at least 3 ½”) to pin the forestay to the bridles using even the closest hole on the OEM 10-hole adjuster. It was impossible to pin, even with the shrouds adjusted all the way out in their last adjuster hole, and the mast awkwardly raked forward by 5-6 degrees)!
In my estimation, in order to pin the forestay to the middle of the adjuster, (where it should properly and easily reach), the forestay wire would have to be more in the 18’9” ballpark. (That's an amazing 6" longer than Murray's specs, and 9" longer than Salty Dog's specs!) This 18'9" length would allow adjustment of the mast rake in either direction by a few degrees, while still being easily “pinnable”, and is what I would expect from a proper length forestay wire. There should be no struggle to pin the forestay, and the mast shouldn’t have to rake forward drastically in order to pin it.
From my first-hand experience, I would recommend the following standing rigging wire lengths for a Solcat 18:
Shrouds = 20’9” (using the stock 10-hole adjuster)
Forestay = 18’9” (using the stock 10-hole adjuster)
Bridles = 3’11”
Dimensions on my boat such as they are, I have no idea how anybody with a Solcat 18 could possibly use the Murray’s replacement forestay at 18’3”, let alone the Salty Dog Marine forestay at their recommended length of 18’0”? That is unless the specs Murray’s and Salty Dog are going by come from a later model year Solcat 18 that changed drastically in specs from the 1978 model I have, (which does not seem right, as my research indicates all model years are the same in specs).
Please understand that I take full responsibility for the wire lengths I purchased and do not expect Salty Dog Marine, Murray’s, or anyone else to buy me a new forestay of the correct length. I am simply trying to overt future problems for other Solcat 18 owners by relating my experiences. I base my comments, here, on the strong likelihood that my Solcat 18, as purchased from the original owners, is box-stock down to the trap wires & old style harnesses that came with it. The boat has not been modified in any way, (including the mast tang placement or wire attachment points on the hull), and has all OEM equipment, with the exception of the forestay that was shortened in a poor attempt to repair it.
I figure there are plenty of other functional Solcat 18’s out there that will eventually need new wire rigging, and I don’t want their owners to go through the same “hair-pulling” hassle and expense as I have gone through, in order to replace their wires… especially if the wires have been repaired, modified or shortened by a previous owner, so that they have no way of measuring them to find the correct, functional length.
I would be curious to know how other’s, who have purchased similar wire kits from Salty Dog Marine (or Murray’s), have faired, and wonder, if like me, they went out and bought a second forestay adjuster in order to make the impossibly short replacement forestay reach the OEM 10-hole adjuster? Or have I somehow passed into a parallel universe "bizarre-o-world" 4th dimension of some sort, where everything is exactly the same as it is on earth prime, with the exception of my Solcat 18 forestay!?!
Thanks for taking the time to read this.
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Sax2ter
Ojai, CA
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Solcat 18 Standing Wire Rigging Lengths
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- Rank: Lubber
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Posted: Nov 28, 2010 - 04:15 PM
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Posted: Nov 28, 2010 - 04:35 PM
Sax2ter
I have had my Solcat for several years, living in Camarillo it is just to easy to drive up to Murrays and get what I need. I have always relied on them to know the correct lengths and have not had any problems with any rigging I have bought from them so far. I would think you should be able to make any adjustments with the pin locations on the plates. Being so close to you I would be willing to meet and provide help if needed. Send me a PM for contact info
Jeff O
Edited by ohmsj on Nov 28, 2010 - 03:59 PM.
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Jeff O
N5.0
solcat 18(sold),
N5.2,
H16
Camarillo CA
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Posted: Nov 28, 2010 - 05:57 PM
On the Solcat, is the 10-hole stay adjuster standard on the sidestays? Hobies and Prindles have a 7-hole stay adjuster for the sidestays and Hobies use the 10-hole stay adjuster (chainplate) on the forestay.
How do your shrouds connect to the mast, does your mast tang have 1 or 2 or 3 holes? I suggest you get together with Jeff above and just go over the shroud connections, both sidestays and forestay. It's hard to imagine both Salty Dog Marine and Murrays would be out on their shroud measurements.
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TurboHobo
H14T
H16
P18
G-Cat 5.0
P16
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Posted: Nov 29, 2010 - 12:18 AM
Guys, thanks for your reply.
According to the Solcat 18 manual, I have everything correct. It's not like it's rocket science! Standing rigging is pretty simple stuff on a cat. Not saying I'm a genius, but I have rebuilt quad valve, double overhead cam racing motorcycle engines, and built my own house... so simple rigging on a cat is a no-brainer to me; especially since I have a decent amount of previous sailboat ownership experience.
And while I am relatively new to beach cats, (I have sailed them off and on for the past 12 years); I am no stranger to mono hulls, which I have sailed for past 30 years or better. I also used to work on commercial urchin powerboats, and have piloted hundreds of trips to the outer Channel Islands off of Southern California (San Nicholas, Santa Barbara, etc.) as part of my job description. Bottom line: I am no land lubber, or armchair boater.
I am simply perplexed as to why Salty Dog and Murray's specs are both so far off from the actual forestay measurement that is required to span the gap from the mast tang to the bridles on my boat. And also, why do Murray's and Salty dog's suggested forestay dimensions differ so greatly?
Worth noting: I measured my old wires (as well as my new wires) "pull to pull" while stretched tightly between two deck screws on my old back deck, using the thimble "loops" on each end. As I said before, my bridles and shrouds were extremely close to Murray's and Salty Dog's specs, it is just the forestay that came in too short. But that is something that is easily remedied by piggybacking an additional tensioner on top of the OEM one to make up the needed length.
As I said before, it is my intention to overt other Solcat owners from the same headache, and truthfully, I didn't think my post would go without generating some comments. I figured people would get their tape measures out, and report back, which at the very least would be interesting, if not demonstrate some dimensional differences between similar boats of different model years! (Or possibly support my parallell universe theory.)
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Sax2ter
Ojai, CA
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Posted: Nov 29, 2010 - 01:44 AM
Well the offer still stands, if nothing else there are a few of us in the area that have solcats and one more would be even better.
Jeff O
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Jeff O
N5.0
solcat 18(sold),
N5.2,
H16
Camarillo CA
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Posted: Nov 29, 2010 - 01:44 AM
Well the offer still stands, if nothing else there are a few of us in the area that have solcats and one more would be even better.
Jeff O
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Jeff O
N5.0
solcat 18(sold),
N5.2,
H16
Camarillo CA
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Posted: Nov 29, 2010 - 10:53 AM
You live in a beautiful area Sax, I drove through it & the Los Padres forest a few weeks ago.
You work should not be for naught. If you have some photos it would be useful to post them, along with your text, into a new album in the "Photo Albums" Catamaran TECHNICAL Tips" section. That way they will found by others much more easily.
When I first started rebuilding my 5.7 I found that finding stuff in the forums, even using the "search" function wasn't as easy, or useful as the Tech tips photo journals.
If you don't want to go with the extra chainplate, to recoup your $$ I would list the stay as brand new in the classifieds & cut & replace the end with whatever the buyer needs. There should be lots of uses for a shorter stay than what you have, I would have bought it if I didn't just get a new one a month ago. If you replace the end with a marine eye/fork, you only loose a couple of inches. If you need to put a thimble on, that, as you know uses 5-6 inches.
That is a nice looking cat, any sail with color makes a bigger statement than an all white one.
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Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
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Posted: Dec 14, 2010 - 06:47 PM
The nice folks at Salty Dog Marine have exchanged my short forestay with one of the correct length, (Thank You Very Much!)
Now, only one final chore stands between the ocean and me: The hiking stick is pretty sloppy where it mounts to the rudder tie-rod. The hole has gotten worn over the years, (where the hiking stick attachment bolt passes through), and there is a lot of steering play as a result.
At present, my proposed fix involves cleanly drilling out the hole in the tie-rod to a larger bore, and installing a bushing of some sort to make up a better interference fit. But, it seems like the bushing would need to have some sort of flange on each end to keep it centered on the hollow tie-rod, (don’t exactly know how I might fabricate this part). Or I suppose I could try reinforcing the tie-rod with some sort of external sleeve or mending plate, at the point where the hiking stick passes through the tie-rod. Could also drill a new mounting hole a couple of inches to the left or right of the current hole, and just deal with the hiking stick not being exactly the same length when I pass if from one side to the other.
Does anyone out there have any experience with fixing this problem? Your ideas, (or better yet, pictures), of how to best (and permanently) fix this problem are welcome!
Whatever the fix, I would like to keep it simple, (and cheap), as possible.
Thanks,
Sax
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Sax2ter
Ojai, CA
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Posted: Dec 15, 2010 - 01:29 AM
Glad to hear they took care of you.
Could you fill the tube with J-B Weld and then drill a new hole to the original size?
disclaimer: I am currently experiencing a severe "man crush" on J-B Weld and of the opinion that it is the greatest thing since Duct Tape.
http://jbweld.net/products/jbweld.php
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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN
How To Create Your Signature
How To Create Your Own Cool Avatar
How To Display Pictures In The Forums.
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Posted: Dec 16, 2010 - 12:04 AM
JB weld sounds like a good idea, but I would have to contain it somehow to the area just in the center of the tie rod. I suppose I could drill out the rivets holding the end pieces on, and use a dowl to "drift" a piece of styrofoam into position just a few inches on either side of the worn out hole in question, (which would contain the JB weld nicely). Then I could fill with JB weld using a syringe, and then re-drill a new hole in the exact same place the hiking stick was attached before. Sounds like a bit of work, but may just do the trick!
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Sax2ter
Ojai, CA
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Posted: Dec 16, 2010 - 01:09 AM
Or you can replace the hole this for less then $20. I rebuilt the tiller arms and tie bar on a N5.2 for less the $30, almost the exact same setup as the my solcat
I got the aluminum tube from Ventura Metals- http://www.venturametals.com/ and they will cut to length.
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Jeff O
N5.0
solcat 18(sold),
N5.2,
H16
Camarillo CA
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Posted: Dec 16, 2010 - 08:39 PM
On my 5.7 the original owner added the adjustable end to the original tiller bar. To make it work required cutting the original bar, then adding the adjuster. The result was the tiller is not exactly at the center. In my opinion, drilling a new hole 1/2"-5/8" offset is of no consequence for a recreational sailor. Mine is more than that, the only time I notice it is when soloing & I decide to move right up to the forward beam. On one tack you will find that your hotstick touches the main blocks because the attachment point is slightly the other side of center. This only happens IF you are way at the front of the boat, AND you have the main block traveler as close to center as it will go. In practice,even with a centered traveler, once the wind load is on the sail, it moves 1/2" off center.
It really isn't an issue, sounds like $$ are tight, drill a new hole, if you don't like the result, then consider buying a new tube. Or take it to an aluminum welder, have him fill the old holes with bead. Grind it down to match the original profile & re-drill on center.
I thought you might be able to buy a 2 piece screw. They are hollow, have a flange on each end. You could put one though the hole, screw the two parts together,(with Loctite)then remount hotstik bracket. I'm not sure if they can be found with a 1/4" center hole
Install one of those 80 cent concave rubber biscuits top & bottom, they work wonders in preventing the attachment bolt from working the hole larger.
Edited by Edchris177 on Dec 17, 2010 - 08:33 AM.
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Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
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Posted: Jul 07, 2013 - 02:52 PM
Sax2ter, thanks for posting this. It is incredibly helpful.
While sailing yesterday my Port shroud busted so am looking to replace all the wires now. (no damage to the boat). My SOLCAT 18 had the same size Shroud length 20'9" but the Forestay was 18'5" and the Bridles 4'. there is a direct relationship between the Bridal length and the Forestay length. What we are going to do is extend the forestay to your recommendation of 18'9" and reduce the Bridal length to 3'11"
What that will do is lower the Jib, or allow the Jib to be lower which will help the SOLCAT point better.
I have read a lot on here about how much faster a Hobie is than a SOLCAT, If the SOLCAT is rigged properly it is a very fast boat. The biggest mistake I see is that the Cunningham on the SOLCAT is very difficult to use and the Sail ends up with wrinkles.
My son and I rigged 2 blocks to use as an additional Cunningham devise to pull the sail down to the boom gooseneck. After that little trick, the boat fly's. ( we take the blocks off after setting the sail. All we need now is a real boom vang. -
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Posted: Jul 07, 2013 - 04:44 PM
you could use epoxy putty thickened so that it would not flow away from the hole. pack enough xs in thru the hole to insure an adequate fill.
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