Hi Everyone,
As you may or may not know last year I had a pretty bad experience with my 5.2. My wife and myself were out if fairly heavy winds and she fell off the boat. She couldn't get back on the boat and I couldn't lift her back on (she is short and heavy with very little upper body strength, but don't tell her I said that). Fortunately someone came and got her so I could get the boat back.
Subsequently I purchased a plastic/rope ladder and tried to use that to reboard. No dice, putting weight on the ladder causes it to go under the boat and you to fall back, you need something to push against. Then I rigged a rope stirrup off of the rear beam and was able to get her back on by having her put a foot into the stirrup, grabbing her PFD and heaving like crazy. It is still a problem and I'm not only worried about sailing with her but anyone else of similar proportions who I may take out.
Anyway It's getting close to the start of the season and I haven't yet figured out a really workable solution.
I was thinking of mounting a telescoping ladder under the front beam such as this one: http://www.westmarine.com…Num=10397&classNum=10398 it should be fairly simple to mount and stow.
The other option I have lookd at is attacheing a strirrup between the front beam and the forestay adjuster, although I'm not overly enthusiastic about the stress that would put on the rigging.
The last option would be to hook a 4:1 purchase adjustment system to one of the trap lines with an extra long leader line, attach it to a PFD or harness and haul ass (literally).
Any I'm looking for opinions, options and experiences.
Regards,
Dave
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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Mounting a boarding ladder
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Posted: May 04, 2011 - 05:59 PM
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Posted: May 04, 2011 - 06:43 PM
i have found that getting back on a cat via the trap wires is easiest (for me at least)
i have 2:1 adjustable traps. seems like a 4:1 could do the job but attaching it to a pdf doesnt sound good or comfortable to me. i would think it would choke her or hurt her -
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Posted: May 04, 2011 - 06:57 PM
Yeah, I would probably make her wear a trap harness to try that trick (if I can convice her to wear it). Or fabricate an under the shoulder harness out of an old 1960s style waist float (yes I have a few of them kicking around).
The new wings may actually help the situation because they will provide something solid to grab onto and something to hang a stirup off of.
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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: May 05, 2011 - 11:36 AM
As an extension to your first idea, here is an interesting transom ladder:
http://www.garelick.com/product.php?pnumber=19700
It is designed to telescope into a transom which works great on say a bass boat. While transom mounting is not really possible on most cats, the ladder could be mounted on the underside of the front or rear cross beam using custom fabricated plate or bracket. When the ladder is closed it would be out of the way under the tramp. It seems pretty compact and unobtrusive. Garelick has a pretty good collection of other ladders too.
Edited by DaveW70 on May 05, 2011 - 11:57 AM.
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Dave Wilson
Hobie 16, Hobie 14
Tampa, FL
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Posted: May 05, 2011 - 12:14 PM
I had a similar situation in Cape San Blas while on vacation last summer. I pitchpoled the boat with sister-in-law and young niece. The niece was easy to get back on board but the sister-in-law had a similar problem. The niece started screaming bloody murder when we fell in and did not stop until she was back on the beach. I never could get the sister-in-law back on the boat and she swam back to the beach with some folks that swam out to help/investigate wheteher we were beating the niece. We were not she was just scared. I'm not sure if my girlfirend could get back on the boat in water over her head but I could probably lift her onto the boat. I'm sure it was a pretty funny situation to watch getting the sister-in-law back onto the boat. I tired to use my shouler to lift her onto the boat from the water and only succeded in flipping her over the port hull. Post some pics of what you come up with.
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Griff
Hobie 16
Tuscaloosa, Alabama
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Posted: May 05, 2011 - 03:25 PM
Not so funny in my case. Anyways, on a 16 or a 17 if you go right up near the bow you can pull the boat down enough that it makes it easier to get on. I could once. Maybe not today. A Wave is a long way up and has lots of flotation. There was a thread, with a proposed solution, on the Catsailer Magazine forum.
http://www.catsailor.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=149070#Post149070
Let us know. Still too damn cold for me to try. -
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Posted: May 05, 2011 - 03:52 PM
I am a big guy and have the same problem getting back on the boat. I have done one time with the help of my oldest son and it was very difficult. My wife went over on a friends boat and had a difficult time getting back on as well.
I have been trying to come up with a solution a well. The side of the boat by the shrouds just does not work for me I have to much weight pulling outward and not enough leverage to pull on board so as I go up I go out not in. I think the best bet for me going to be something at the beam between the hulls. I have had 2 ideas I have been thinking about. One is a retractable rope like the righting lines that have a hollow rope with a bungee core. On end starting at the beam the other traveling forward to a bit behind where the bridle connect (This is on a P18) I would connect these by putting a hole in the lip of the deck lid similar to the ones used for the shrouds and bridles and feeding it though and tying it off. The bungee would retract this along the underside of the deck lip and the rope would allow it to be pulled down just a bit to get a foot hold. I also considered at piece of PVC or some thing in the middle to act as a step. At this location you have both the beam and the hull to work with. If you can throw a leg over the hull you should be good :) right. You could have one on each side.
Another idea was a variation only it would stretch between the hulls just in front of the beam. I haven't been able to work out the logistics but picture a kind of rope ladder that is attached to the inside of both hulls. When not in use it is stretched tight via bungee across both hulls kinda like the tramp. When need your weight can pull is down under the water letting you get on top of it. The rope parts would restrict how far in the water is could go so you could actually sit on it and be just a foot or so under the water. You could use the ladder rungs to climb towards either hull until you could sit on the beam. By being attached between the hull the rope ladder could not be pushed under the boat making it impossible to use.
I have has no time to make a prototype of either.
Also one other idea was a straight rope ladder attached to the front beam in some sort of bag that zipped it in. You can unzip then attach the bottom end via carbiner to something on the front of the boat like where the bridles attach and or the bottom of g the forestay. This would keep form going under the boat but it would be difficult to put it away until you got to the beach.
Sorry for the typos I dont have time to proof read.
Oh and I like both those ladders but I have no idea how you would implement them.
Edited by Quarath on May 05, 2011 - 03:53 PM.
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Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
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Posted: May 05, 2011 - 04:02 PM
Also just found this
http://www.westmarine.com…Num=10552&classNum=10553
they also have a 5:1 version
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Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
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Posted: May 05, 2011 - 04:08 PM
Yeah, I saw that thread. Thinking of doing somthing similar to what Quarath suggests and similar to the thread. Using a couple fo blind stainless anchors (snap toggles) I was going to mount a couple of eyestraps in front of the front beam on each hull. Then I would run a line between them that could act as a step while you board over the front beam.
I'm really starting to like the idea of the West Marine ladder though The undermount brackets are small enough to mount under the front beam using some spacers. The ladder itself could then slide out forward while you board and be slid back under the tramp for storage. The other option would be to mount it under the back beam (if there isn't enough room between the dolphin striker strap and the front beam). In that case you would have to detatch the tiller arm between the rudders to board. Not a problem on mine because I have quick release pins for them but might not be an option for other boats. Also the tendancy for the boat to head down wind when trying to board from the back is an issue. I will see what I can come up with.
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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: May 06, 2011 - 12:36 PM
Definitely let me know what you come up with if you can work out the details of any of those ideas. keep a list of materials and lengths and pictures.
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Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
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Posted: May 06, 2011 - 01:58 PM
I used to do long distance barefoot waterski racing and we would have to pull teammates from the water into the boat to expedite turnaround between skiers. We found that if you are trying to pull the person into the boat with them facing you, it took alot more effort to pull them in than when they are facing away from you. I haven't had to try this technique on the sailboat but it should work. Grab her by the vest at the top of the shoulders and yank.
I have a similar concern for my wife due to her similar morphology as Wolfman's. My wife has a hard time getting into the boat wihen it is floating in 2 feet of water. -
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Posted: May 07, 2011 - 07:15 AM
It's not perfect, but you can use the mainsheet. We used to sail with a big guy "Smitty" he did not have the upper body strength to get himself on board, and I don't think Gov Arnold S could have lifted him in his prime. After a capsize his crew said he had taken the mainsheet off, attached it to the trapese & trap harness and lifted him up, 8:1 & 400 pounds is a possibility.
Quick release shackles, and a roller furler for the jib make doing this easier.
Hope this helps
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Steve Fisherkeller
P19MX
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Posted: May 07, 2011 - 11:31 AM
I actually am considering that. I have a set of 6:1 bullet blocks with a cleat that I was going to use as a downhaul that I may push into service. My Main blocks are quick release already but I really don't want to detatch them while sailing.
D.
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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: May 07, 2011 - 05:01 PM
Dave, what about attaching a telescoping ladder, or whatever to the front beam. As you note the problem is the ladder wants to swing under the boat.
However, this is easily prevented by having two short lines, (one attached at each bottom corner of the ladder) with a snap hook at one end.
To use it, drop the ladder, then attach a line to the loop where the bridle wire attaches to the hull, one line to each hull. Make the line just long enough so that the ladder can hang nearly vertical, but won't be able to swing under the boat.
Using two lines will prevent the ladder from twisting, & length will determine how far past vertical the ladder can swing. The lines go out at an angle, leaving free access to the ladder.
It would only take seconds to clip the lines on, & as long as the person has enough leg strength to climb 3-4 stairs it will work. I don't have a photo, but I built such a system decades ago to access a treehouse. We only had a short piece of wooden ladder & needed to stabilize the bottom. With the ladder swinging from a large branch, we had the same problem you do. The guys could manage, but Family rules dictated that the girls also got to use the pad, so that's what we came up with.
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Posted: May 07, 2011 - 06:59 PM
EC,
Take a look at the link above, The one I am thinking of is the undermounted one. It works similarly to what you are describing. I would mount it under one of th beams and it would sit unde r the tramp when not in use (with the telescoping rungs sticking a little bit out front) and when needed you pull it out and pivot it down. When finished you pull it back up and push it in. I'm thinking of attaching shock cord to the top bars to make it semi self retracting.
Anyway the ladder is on order, I will let you know if it works out and post photos. If it doesn't I will mount it to my dock.
D.
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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: May 09, 2011 - 03:45 PM
I actually looked at that ladder in a West marine store the other day and I don't think it mounts the way you are saying it does. The pictures on the pack show the 2 brackets mounting to the top of a deck then the ladder lays flat on the when collapsed but to use you swing up out and down then it is supported by the brackets and ready to use. It did not look like it would work the way you are suggesting.
I like the idea of a little extra lift action perhaps a sling step like
http://www.westmarine.com…Id=24220&catalogId=10001
combined with a 5:1 pully system. You could rig it off the front of teh mast and when not being use pull the system tight along the mast. You might have to install a separate mast hound on the front of the mast to hook it to.
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Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
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Posted: May 09, 2011 - 04:29 PM
That looks like the ticket, that type lift could be lowered deep enough into the water that anyone could get their foot on it, then pulling it up like an elevator combined with crawling in across the front beam should work. And it's easy to stow. If you don't want to attach an additional mast hound you could run a 1x19 shroud type wire up along the mast to the existing hound down to a point where your ladder blocks would attach.
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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN
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Posted: May 09, 2011 - 04:37 PM
I think you are lookingat the over platform version. (2 top photos) Where I cam looking at the undermounted version. I will let you know anyway, it's already in transit.
D.
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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: May 10, 2011 - 01:55 PM
You are correct that is the one I saw. The under mount though still looks like it would extend down into the water and create drag even collapsed.
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Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
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Posted: May 10, 2011 - 01:59 PM
I might need to rig so I can use it to make it easier to get on the hulls for righting to. I can do it but not without more than few bruises and a whole lot of spent energy. If I slip off I worry I won't have the energy for another shot.
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Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
1982 Prindle 18
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Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook.
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