Hi, Im new to the forums, and to catamarans too.
I have been sailing monohull daysailers for about two years now, and every time a cat blows my doors off I think, wow! I must have one!
But my eagerness has bit me in the ass I think. I just purchased a 79 p-16 for about $500.
Everything is in great shape except the lines, plastic pullies, and the tramp needs stitching.
But one major problem. The hulls have delaminated about %60 of their surface. Decks and sides.!
The decks have a few small cracks, but the hull sides have no cracks or holes. I can crunch the majority of the hull sides and decks by hand. The rear of the hulls are strong, and theres no gudgeon cracks or weakness there. But my question is, are these hulls even fixable at all?
I have plenty of automotive fiberglass experience, and I am a diesel mechanic by trade, so difficult and nasty jobs do not bother me in the slightest.
Can I fix this thing with injection? or should I pitch it?
There arent a lot of cats or parts for sale in my area, in fact I drove a 500 miles round trip to get this heap.
I am not sure what to do here.
If I can source a pair of hulls that would be great. not likely to happen where I live.
Can I get my money back out of it by parting it out? ($500)
Maybe inject the majority of the hulls and paint them?
I was really looking forward to flying hulls this summer instead of putting around in my monohull.....
any advice is appreciated.
Edited by anrkii on May 12, 2011 - 11:03 PM.
New guy, old boat
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Posted: May 12, 2011 - 11:01 PM
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Posted: May 13, 2011 - 01:10 AM
I'd say, fix it up with little or no regard to cosmetics and go sailing asap, ie: this season! Wear a PFD and only go sailing in conditions you can manage with or without a functioning boat!
Then, with the invaluable experience you gain you will be in "pole position" to evaluate what it is you do and don't want in a cat.
As to the repairs, why not post some pictures for the people here too take a look at. There's a lot that can be fixed economically if you aren't concerned with minimum weight or aesthetics.
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Posted: May 13, 2011 - 03:16 AM
okay, so thats one vote for ten gallons of fiberglass resin.
Perhaps paint it up like the general lee? -
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Posted: May 13, 2011 - 07:02 AM
One gallon injected, (do a search, there have been quite a few people here who have fixed delams) will go a long way. For a couple hundred $ you will probably have a sail able boat...of course you will spend more on other things like lines, standing rigging etc.
You have the skills to fix this thing, forget about painting it, just buff it with a fine fiberglass compound, much like you would with oxidized paint on a car.
Inject, some lines, rigging, good PFD, then sail the crap out of it. You will learn lots, & then make better decisions on where you want to go. You didn't say where you are, or what water you sail on, but if you really mess up & sink the thing, or crash it in the surf or on a breakwall, well, you are not out thousands.
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Posted: May 13, 2011 - 07:12 AM
Howdy Neighbour!
I live in Columbia, MO, not too far far from you, I envy you being so close to Stockton Lake. You will quickly realize that the dominant mind set here in MO is that of "motor-head", bigger is better, if they can throw a 200HP motor on a johnboat, they will git-r-done. That being said, there is a strong base of sailors out of Stockton, you can contact Lake Stockton Yacht Club at the Orleans Trail Marina, lots of cats stored there on the dry.
I picked up my 1st H14Turbo down at Stockton, drove to Stephens Point, WI, 520 miles one way, to get my H16, and picked up my Prindle 18 in Newark, OH, a trip of 574 miles , one way, I know all about it. I was fortunate in that all my cats were in excellent condition, all I had to do was re-furbish the hulls, clean up the lines with a good soak in bleach, pop them in the washing machine and they like new. In your case, if the sides of the hulls are delaminated that bad, hull integrity is of concern, but like mentioned above, fix it with the injection method and go sail. Meanwhile, use this website to search for hulls, http://www.searchtempest.com, you just might be able to pick up a set of hulls for cheap, in fact, I saw a P16 for sale in St Louis not too long ago, let me see if I can dig that one up from my In-Box, send me a PM with your info.
I will be storing my P18 up at Mark Twain Lake, cannot afford to haul the P18 every time I go sail, bonus is I can store it mast-up, will be converting my jib to a furling jib, with a cover to protect it from the elements, Mark Twain is 1 1/2 hrs drive for me just to go sailing.
Turbo
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Posted: May 13, 2011 - 08:45 AM
INJECT THAT MOTHER! don't be afraid to use as much resin as you need. there is a huge collection of injection how to on this site. save your cash for the expensive stuff like new tramps, lines, etc.. but first off, inject it and take it sailing...the boat will tell you what to fix next!
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Posted: May 13, 2011 - 09:03 AM
Injection is much simpler than you think. I have a now solid P-16 on the beach in La Paz with 300 holes. Yours will take more, but by breaking it up to several days, it'll work. A gallon of West Epoxy with pumps will do the job. Buy at Jamestown Distributers or quote West Marine when you go there. Buy the two pack plastic syringes and a box of (100) rubber gloves. Drill 1/8" holes two inches apart (try deck first). Inject in the shade in under 80 degrees. Have a roll of paper towels handy as it sometimes bubbles back up when it kicks. Work fast using 1/3 to 1/2 syringe per hole. I use paper cup with 6-8 pumps at a time. Make sure you wipe it clean as it kicks. Fill the divits with Bondo, sand an hour later. Paint boat with Interlux Brightside, a one part LP. West Marine lists for $38.99, Jamestown price $27.99. Again in the shade using good quality brush. For hull side, tip boat on edge so you're always injecting, painting, a flat surface. If it comes out all right, forget stitching, buy the new tramp as boat will look brand new. Call me for small bits & pieces. Pete 909-800-5237 -
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Posted: May 13, 2011 - 10:55 AM
I restiched an original tramp from my '77 N5.2 and I'm on my second season with no apparent "stich poping"...yet. fingers crossed.
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Gray Amick
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Posted: May 13, 2011 - 12:07 PM
Am I correct in thinking that you can't inject a non-foam sandwich hull (like my 5.2) to stiffen it up?
Regards,
Dave
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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
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Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: May 13, 2011 - 12:43 PM
Yes you can inject it. The problem would be it would take a 55 gallon drum of Epoxy. That would probably hurt your light air performance.
Edited by golfdad75 on May 13, 2011 - 12:44 PM.
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Posted: May 13, 2011 - 12:47 PM
You wouldn't ever need to, if a hull is solid fiberglass layup there isn't any "sandwich" to delaminate.
Delam happens when the core breaks down so the two fiberglass surfaces are no longer attached. No core, no delam. Doesn't mean a solid hull can't have problems, just not that one.
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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN
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Posted: May 13, 2011 - 03:06 PM
Heres the heap:
I went and crunched the whole thing down today, and circled the bad spots with a sharpie.
Its not quite as bad as I thought. Maybe 35-40% of the whole boat.
The decks between the crossbars must be injected, theres a couple of small pizza spots on the front of the decks one spot on the back of the left deck. on the hull sides theres a few of 3' x 1.5' spots.
The worst is the outside of the right hull . It has a "soft spot" that is the width of the hull, nearly 10 feet long.
The only cracks on the outside are on the deck, under the tramp. None of the soft spots or cracks are on any of the hull or rigging fastener locations. also when i pick up one side at the front, the other hull comes right up. So its not too twisty either.
Ill tackle the decks first, then dismantle it and do the hull sides.
Ive researched on the topic of injection, theres several different approaches to it. Correct me if im wrong , but a triangular pattern of holes about 4" apart drilled 1/4" deep will do the trick?
How many gallons of resin? 3? 4?
Also, which website has the best prices and stock for the sheaves and rudder rebuild bits?
Edited by anrkii on May 13, 2011 - 03:07 PM. -
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Posted: May 13, 2011 - 04:01 PM
I live 45 minutes from stockton. But I am also only 10 minutes from fellows lake, which is a 3 mile long drinking water resevoir for springfield. 40hp limit on the lake, no swimming or skiing. Its a great place for a quick sail before work, I can just pop by anytime I have a few hours to spare. Theres a few regular sailors there, but I havent seen many out on the water. Ive been trailer-sailing my 19 foot mono, But a cat on the shore would be a lot more handy. -
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Posted: May 13, 2011 - 04:13 PM
That's what I figured just making sure.
Looks like that has the potential to be a sweet boat, a little elbow grease and you will be good to go!
For outfitting I would try and buy as much used as possible.
Troll the classifieds here!! If you have some patience you can likely pick up everything you need for a fraction of the new cost by keeping an eye open and placing some want adds for parts. Take Prindle Pete up on his offer, he can likely hook you up with many of the bits you need. Also look up presaled parts on the classifieds and contact Dan Berger on here he always have boat bits and parts for sale. Between all of those sources you should be able to almost oufit the whole boat!
New parts and rigging are available from any number of sites I like Murray's Marine for factory part but there is also Salty Dog Marine that I have heard good things about. Murrays is likely the best place to get prindle specific parts.
I also like Annapolis Performance Sailing for customer service and the fact that they have every sheave, block and rope type known to man.
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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: May 13, 2011 - 10:44 PM
Couple of articles to read if you haven't found them already. Here's a step by step for doing the injection, this article was done in the 1990's so it would be great if you could do an updated version by taking pictures and notes as you go along.
http://www.thebeachcats.c…9/installing-deck-ports/
Also you should think about what caused so much delam, the boat may be full of water, does it have deck ports? I don't know if they were standard on the Prindle 16.
http://www.thebeachcats.c…9/installing-deck-ports/
Good luck,
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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
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Posted: May 13, 2011 - 11:38 PM
can sunlight exposure alone cause a big delam problem? the red gelcoat is sun bleached badly where the big delam is.
I think this boat was sitting outside in the same spot for about a decade.
theres no ports, its an earlier model. A few years newer got them. -
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Posted: May 14, 2011 - 07:35 AM
the areas where the delam is biggest, looks like the gelcoat/outer layer sag? if so, then put a pattern(just enough) of course 1" drywall screws to draw loose glass back to original place then inject, let dry, remove screws, inject screw holes. this keeps you from using way to much resin and creating a distorted shape on the hull. looks like the gelcoat can be rubbed out, put a layer of masking tape over repair ares so the resin doesn't mess up your gelcoat and cut off the excess resin oozing out with a razor when the resin starts to harden and is still "green".
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Posted: May 14, 2011 - 07:59 AM
In Talking to Sterling Santly, head of Surfglas for many years, he stated that both Surfglas & Hobie receive some bad Clark foam at different times. Sun also certainly contributs to delam. If you have discoloration, you will never be able to rub out that color to your satisfaction in my opinion. One gallon of epoxy should easily do the job and 1 qt of Brightside will cover whole boat. I just finished an old H-16. Injection, 1 hour, sanding down hulls, 1 1/2 hours, touch up epoxy on dings 1/2 hour, painting 1 1/2 hours. Used 1/5 gallon epoxy ($25), 2 sander discs ($1), 1 qt Brightside ($30)(have 3/4" paint left in can), 1 paint brus ($4). For $61 and my cheap labor, boat looks brand new. Pete -
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Posted: May 29, 2011 - 10:07 AM
Im almost done with the delam repair, the worst of it was the outside of the right hull. it sat in direct sunlight for a decade..
its a "soft spot" that ten feet long and the width of the hull. 255 holes! Turned out rock solid, though
Ill have about 3 1/2 gallons in it total, But i estimate about 650-700 holes in the thing.
Got a 1 - piece tramp in good shape for 50$ bought all new rigging for $150 (sta set)
all the rudder rebuild parts, mast ball, and other doodads was about $100
Ill have $750 in this thing when done.
Of course I just found a 5.7 solcat in GREAT shape for $500 after all my money is tied up in this. Whoops -
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Posted: May 29, 2011 - 06:44 PM
Tis the nature of owning a catamaran! I'm way over that this year, of course I like adding toys to mine. This will likely be a better boat than the solcat in the long run just from a parts availability standpoint. But if you can... buy them both, that way you will never have to look for someone to sail with. :)
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Dave Bonin
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