That is a good point eric, I had not considered that there is not that much wind here either. I know down in florida there is a lot of wind and the windsurfers love it there. Once we move back down there I will probably revisit the trapeze thing. Also I FULLY intend to fabricate some wing seats for the boat because if nothing else it is a way to hang out there and balance the boat and in the least thing it is somewhere for my kids to sit and jump off of when we are just cruising. I wonder if anyone on here can give me some dimensions on the distance out from the side of the boat and the height off the top of the boat that the tramp seat is set to..? I think I will make them from aluminum tubing and tig weld some cross beams to the top spars. I figure a vertical that is kinda S shaped and the crossbeams notched and tig welded into them. I will also need to notch the tubing to go around the little obstruction inside the cross tubes on the boat. I am figuring a couple stainless steel bolts down thru with some lathe turned insert sort of nuts to accept the bolts and support the weight. Then I plan to contact cement some neoprene material to the seat area and hopefully use some matching color to complement the boats graphics. Anyone out there done a nacra wing seat? Peace
Pete
New guy with recently bought Nacra 5.2!!
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Posted: Jul 30, 2011 - 07:20 AM
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Posted: Jul 31, 2011 - 02:33 PM
Wife and I are off tomorrow, gotta take care of some stuff in the AM but gonna try to take out the boat in the afternoon. PRAY FOR WIND!! That is without thunderstorms.... haha Hoping for a nice day out on the lake with some good speed. Hope all of you can get wet tomorrow too!! peace
Pete -
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Posted: Aug 01, 2011 - 12:07 PM
Pete,
That front tramp you see in the pics is from a Hobie Gateaway we sailed in Jamaica. Lots of fun in 30kts.
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Gray Amick
Chapin, SC
'77 NACRA 5.2
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Posted: Aug 01, 2011 - 09:01 PM
Gcamick,
Oh it looked like you adapted it to fit your nacra. That is precisely what I am gonna do. We went out on the boat today and it was kinda nice and windy. Actually got some speed out of her a few times. Still not enough wind to hang a hull but pretty nice nonetheless. I did have a damn mishap tho. When we were lowering the mast the darn boom alignment rod or whateveryoucallit got turned sideways and punched a small hole in the trampoline. I think I can repair it enough to use it for the rest of the season but it was a real heartbreaker. I am sure now gonna plan on moving or somehow removing that thing. It really is a menace and can actually hurt someone. Another thing that would make for a nicer sailing experience is for the boom to be a little higher. When the wind is kicking it is not really a problem because the angle is kinda up and out but when it is slow it really hangs down and is difficult for my wife and I to get underneath.
Other than these small issues we had a blast and that boat can make it clear across the lake and back in no time at all when the wind is blowing. It was really throwing a nice wake a few times. I swear when you get the sail just right and my wife is getting really good at setting the jib up and that boat starts to take off it is just a beautiful thing!! I also would love to hear about how some of you guys have moved the jib rigging underneath the trampoline? That would make for a much nicer sailing experience with the kids on board. I may machine some wide brackets on my CNC mill to accept a crossbeam from aluminum to take the span across the hulls at the bow to accept the trampoline material. I think I can also attatch something to the front main tube to accept the rear end of the additional trampoline. That would really help make the boat more useful for my family and a lot more fun. Getting the cooler and other stuff off the main tramp and allowing the kids to ride up there would really free up the rear tramp for more space and move-around-ability. The boat is just a lot of fun and we are anxiously awaiting for the day when this oppressive heat goes away and some real wind comes back into the area. I know that landing we have been taking the boat to has seen some serious winds and I cannot wait to hang a hull on a day like that. Most of the people there say it is normal to get a lot of wind in that particular area.
Anyways I would be very interested in hearing about any of these modifications others have done on their cats. Another thing that we had a little problem with was the daggerboards have a thick rope with two knots on either side and the port one is apparently not thick enough to keep the daggerboard from popping thru and getting stuck in the hull. We had a helluva time getting it back out when we were getting ready to put her back on the trailer. What a blast sailing that boat is... my kids love it and love jumping off into the lake and swimming underneath the tunnel they call it even more... peace
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Posted: Aug 02, 2011 - 07:46 AM
If you want to put a forward tramp on a 5.2 I would look for another boat. The 5. 2 doesn't tolerate much weight. I hate to sail with my buddies who weigh 200 plus. Putting the jb wires underneath is easy since you have the cutouts. Also the boom alighment thing, are you talking about the mast rotator control?. Just tilit it towards the mast when raising or lowering. Never thought much about it. PM me ifyou want some more info on moving the wires. I did mine this spring.
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Nacra 5.2
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Posted: Aug 02, 2011 - 08:12 AM
Actually my wife and myself and both my kids had plenty of room and the boat seems to float and handle the extra weight really easy... I do not see why you could not put the extra tramp in front at all. It would mostly be for having somewhere else to put stuff and occasionally have the kids who are four and nine years old riding up front laying down on it. The boat is plenty large enough IMHO for that. The question is has anyone ever done it before? I may have to be the first. I would do it if nothing else just to have somewhere to store my crap and cooler while sailing. I am also not talking about a heavy duty tramp as the main tramp, more like a lighter version with a webbed fabric. The anti-rotation thing is a real pain and is gonna hafta be moved up to the top of the boom somehow. I was looking at pics of the ones on the later models and I think I could fab up something like that relatively easy. The boat was pretty quick yesterday in less than desireable winds. I think if I can get her out in a nice windy day things would get real interesting. Nevermind if we move back to florida soon I KNOW there is wind on the water there having lived there most of my life... I would love to talk to you about how you rigged your jib blocks underneath the tramp. Where are you located? I am in East Tennessee...peace
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Posted: Aug 02, 2011 - 11:44 AM
Pete, throw us a paragraph every once in a while!
Lots of folks have rigged front tramp/cargo-nets on cats not designed for it, but each one is a unique engineering project. You may be the first for the 5.2 who knows. There are pictures of a number of these in the photo albums. One of these days I'll gather them all into one area, here's a couple.
http://www.thebeachcats.c…ictures/?g2_itemId=81260
http://www.thebeachcats.c…ictures/?g2_itemId=19005
to do a full front tramp like the G-Cats you'd need to add a new front beam at the bows. I've seen this done on a Prindle 18, I'll see if I can get some pics.
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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN
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Posted: Aug 02, 2011 - 12:26 PM
Damon,
That is exactly what I am planning. I cannot see how you could do a reasonably strong front tramp without another beam up near the front of the boat. What I am planning is to machine some rivet plates on my CNC and then get maybe some aluminum extrusion like material for the crossbeam and tig weld them together. Then using the slot in the extrusion sew up a rectangular trampoline with a beaded edge like the sail with a piece of rope in it to keep it locked inside the slot. That way it can be slid out when you do not want it in there. Then the back near the main crossbeam might be either another piece of extrusion or some fancy sewing with grommets and shock chord going into or around the main beam to make the tramp taught. It really seems like it would be pretty easy to fab this up on my boat looking at it. I would think getting something underneath the glass on the front of the hulls would be difficult since the access port is quite aways back from there so I suppose some large rivets of some sort would have to do or maybe some sort of expanding grommets. I am up for hearing anyone else's ideas about how to secure these CNC plates to the hulls safely.
THose pics are nice but they are not what I am looking at making. Basically if you look at a hobie getaway that is what I am wanting. I think in some ways the additional front crossbeam will strengthen the boat. This will not be for having a whole bunch of adults on it I do not think just a spot for the kids to ride on and an additional place to put your junk... Coolers, extra lines, maybe a small anchor, things like that...
I will need to look at a G-cat since I do not know what that is. I would be interested to see the pics of that prindle so equipped. Peace
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Posted: Aug 02, 2011 - 01:32 PM
If you use an actual beam (from a donor boat) it will already have the correct type slot for a tramp and probably be cheaper since you could probably use one with a damaged end or otherwise not perfect.
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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN
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Posted: Aug 02, 2011 - 09:55 PM
I thought about you today while on the water. IMHO the 5.2 will not take the weight up front. It is not buoyant enough. A cargo net maybe for some gear. But I'm sure Edison was told that an electric light was impossible.
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Nacra 5.2
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Posted: Aug 03, 2011 - 07:24 AM
Golfdad,
Hey man I gotta wholeheartedly disagree with you. I have only sailed this boat a couple five times now but I have watched my wife and kids sit up on the front of the hulls like they were riding a rocking horse dragging their feet in the water as we sailed across the lake. My wife is tall and around 145 lbs and my two daughters are like nine and four years old. I noticed NO real difference in the way the boat was riding other than the drag of their feet in the water slowing the boat down. Now I agree that if the wind is really kicking and you are flying a hull I might not want them up there simply due to safely reasons. I do not however agree that there is not enough flotation up there. I mean usually when you look at videos of the nacra 5.2 the back end of the boat is lower down in the water than the front is. I also looked at that G-cat in a video and it did not appear to ride any lower in the front. Again I also want to re-iterate that this front tramp is solely for my kids and my gear to ride on. My wife and I will be back on the regular tramp doing the sailing thing....
It is not whether I am gonna do this or not, it will get done as time permits. MY only questions are as to the best ways to arrive at a working safe setup. Right now My best idea is to machine two plates to mate to the hulls just north of the non-skid area on top of the hulls. For The crossbar I intend to use some 80/20 or larger extruded aluminum bar. This will allow different attatchments for rigging of lines as well as other things and as I said before it has a slot for a bolt to slide in that I will attempt to use to capture the front end of the tramp in the same manner that a mainsail attatches to the mast. The rear of the tramp I am still working on. It will most likely be a few carefully drilled holes in the main beam with some standoffs that will hold a solid stainless rod that I can make the tramp shock chords around to tension it up. I would think four or five 3/8 inch holes would be more than enough across the span of the main tube to accept the rod. I might just use some stainless eyelets and put a stainless rod in there and tack them in place and then remove the assembly and bring it back into the shop to weld it up right. I am thinking that some pieces of stainless round stock lathe turned and then cut into pie slices and then drilled and tapped to make nuts for the eyelets inside the main tube should work but it would be a pain to get the nuts in place. I am still working on that.
Damon, I like the idea of the re-using another beam from another boat but honestly I have seen so few of these boats around here that finding one would be a major undertaking and the 80/20 is readily available and VERY rigid and lightweight for it's size.
That G-cat seems to be a very similar boat to the nacra altho it has hulls shaped more like a hobie 16... They were able to make that work it appears, I wonder how many of those boats are out there like that...
This is what I am after really....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKuMokmDWKM
It seems that the Hobie getaway is 16' 7" long very similar to my nacra altho it is made of plastic I guess. The way that the kids were riding up front like that while the older folks were out back looks like a perfect setup for a fun day out on the lake. When I want to really rip, the kids will not be on the boat anyways until they are a little older. Most of the sailing we will be doing will be like in this video.... I honestly think that this is totally doable and even practical..
I was sincerely hoping someone else had tried this on their boat or any boat other than the Hobie Getaway because it just seems like such a simple and easy modification and it would make the boat so much more usable. Everything has it's drawbacks such as if I do manage to pitchpole the boat sometime the extra tramp will act as another sail trying to keep the boat upside down. It also makes for more of a sail to kinda force the boat upward when flying a hull so you would probably be more likely to flip it over. The upside is obviously more room and a more usable boat and IMHO I think if properly done the extra beam would make for a more rigid setup on the hulls and perhaps aid in the stress on the hulls in rougher waters due to them being held together more rigidly. I am NO engineer but I have built all sorts of things over the years and this is just my opinion. Worst case scenario, it is a total dismal failure and I must remove it and patch some holes up front in a boat that already has several patched holes in it. Thanks for all of your concern and ideas and if anyone has a good suggestion about the best way to secure these plates to the front hulls in the most secure way I would love to hear about it... peace
Pete
Edited by petefromtn on Aug 03, 2011 - 08:38 AM. -
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Posted: Aug 03, 2011 - 10:53 AM
Pete, its walls here the other new guy with a 5.2. At my local lake the wind howls daily! Latley i've been crewing offshore
preparing for a race around anacapa island . Still skippering my 5.2 three days a week out at the lake,mast up storage for another month.but i agree with golfdad,after being on the wire on a prindle 18.2 and a dart when i get back on my 5.2 i'm constantly having my crew (drunk friends) shift there weight towards the rear.As youre pace picks up the leeward bow rides lower ,now that i've taken a few rides with (yoda-jedi-cat-master) and buried the hulls a few times
the last thing I would want would be weight forward of the beam. anyways in light wind with the family,my direction would be a very temporary set up that way in a pinch lets say the wind picks up you could get everything back.After spending hours on the wire in the santa barbara channel i've become very fond of foot straps!!!Getting wraped around the dolphin striker hurts!! ON most of the 5.2 i've seen with straps the skippers rear foot strap is behind the aft beam
that gave me a idea of proper weighting , I know my grammer sucks I'm no writer i hope you get what i'm trying to say
think about a temp set up try it out i think you will reconsider buy the way have an extra dagger board you want to sell? on a beam reach pull boards up 20%
walls
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Posted: Aug 03, 2011 - 11:18 AM
No man I do not have any extra anything for this boat which sucks really.. I guess I am gonna hafta disagree with both of you then, As I said I have watched my wife AND kids ride the hulls up front on the boat and the flotation was never a problem. I just got off the phone with a hobie dealer earlier today asking about the getaway and how strong the front tramp is. He basically told me that the front is more of a storage area altho kids and light adults can ride up there. The front tramp was never designed to hold the weight of a full size adult. Mine will be much the same with just enough strength to hold my kids and maybe a cooler or so...
Once I get it finished I will post you guys some pics of it out on the lake. AS I said I am quite sure it will work, I am not saying it will not ride lower in the water with the kids up there, of course it will... What I AM saying is that I do not see it as a problem. The extra storage space alone will be worth the effort and if the kids can ride up there getting their butts wet thru the webbing having fun then it will be a winner in my book. I am trying to source materials right now for it. I have some current projects that I am working on for my friends Recumbent bike business that is taking some time. I am making a weld fixture for the bikes and once it is finished I just need to tig up these frames for him and I should have some spare time then... We shall see how it goes. Again As I said worst case scenario it DOES NOT work, all I gotta do is remove it and patch some screw holes... I see no down side... Everyone is always skeptical of new things. Unless you can show me someone who has done exactly what I am proposing and it was a dismal failure I would prefer to hear ideas about how to make it work the best..... peace
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Posted: Aug 03, 2011 - 11:57 AM
Hey Pete did'nt mean to bum you out.No one likes a nay sayer !Just remember if you fly windward hull even a foot leebow goes down bubble.And i'm into it cooler yeah!
walls -
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Posted: Aug 03, 2011 - 12:46 PM
Walls,
No worries man, altho I am not quite sure what the heck you are talking about with the leebow and down bubble. IS this a submarine? Are you from Australia? I am just trying to get the most enjoyment and sail time out of this old boat and I see this as a great way to accomplish just that... Peace
Pete -
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Posted: Aug 03, 2011 - 01:27 PM
Pete go ahead and knock yourself out. By the way is your boat all fiberglass or do you have foam core?
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Nacra 5.2
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Posted: Aug 03, 2011 - 01:39 PM
Pete, a friend in Ocean Springs is going to send me pics of his Prindle 18 with a front tramp. I haven't seen it but I think it's a full front tramp using a third beam and custom made tramp.
He's also installed Getaway wings on the boat.
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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN
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Posted: Aug 03, 2011 - 04:54 PM
Damon,
Yeah man now we are talking.... I would love to see some real pics of a properly retrofitted front tramp on another boat. Also those wings are a project on the roster for me too... I am pretty pleased with the boat so far and it is pretty fast in light winds. I imagine adding just a tad bit of weight carefully will not seriously affect the performance too badly. Besides anything I can do to make going sailing more comfortable and more fun for the family is gonna be better for everyone.
Golfdad,
I am gonna take that comment in the positive way I hope it was meant to be, Hopefully I will not literally knock myself out. I fabricate stuff like this every day of my life so I know I can do it. The end result will hopefully speak for itself. As Far as the hulls, I have only had the boat a week or three now and the only look inside the hulls I got was when I first bought it removing the access ports. I did not see anything but a hollow hull made of fiberglass... Hopefully that is a good thing....
A friend of mine said that he has used some sort of rivet nuts on fiberglass before. Basically it is a large rivet that mushrooms and inside it is a steel nut. I dunno how well these would hold in fiberglass but it sure sounded promising. Any other ideas about securing these mounting plates to the hulls would be most welcome... peace
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Posted: Aug 03, 2011 - 05:43 PM
Yes it just an expression to go ahead. Kinda of like break a leg to an actor. good luck with the project.
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Nacra 5.2
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Posted: Aug 04, 2011 - 08:11 AM
Wow bummer man,
I was outside working on the Nacra today and noticed that the rivet bolts that hold the rudder arms to the tie rod are kinda worn out and one is half cracked. I guess I am gonna hafta get some stainless steel fasteners to replace them with. Anyone else had this problem? Also what is a privmatic rudder system? I am trying to get this boat setup the best I can and while it is old there is a lot of good things about it. I am thinking that a simple stainless bolt going thru the other way with a nylock stainless nut on the inside of that tie rod fitting should work but anyone else have any suggestions? I suppose I will do both sides just to be sure... peace
Pete
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