I hate hooking the main on the top of the mast, the S hook on the jib is only slightly better, but can't be done from the tramp. I am thinking I can replace these with an upgraded halyard and furler, and greatly speed rigging. It would make it much easier to unfurl the sails on the water, which is kind of necessary when I use the ramps and docks at the club and have to row out. These ideas are based on how the sails are rigged on my Y-flyer (an 18 foot scow).
I want to replace the halyard and hooks at the top of the jib and main. My idea is the main would be pulled up with a cable/rope halyard and tied off at a cleat on the bottom of the mast. If necessary, I could add a Harken Magic Box to the mast, and attach the halyard to this, for some additional tension. I am not sure the Magic Box approach is really necessary, it might be overkill.
For the jib, I want to install a furler. I am watching for a used h-18 set up, but the Harken bits new are reasonable too. I suppose this would require some sacrificial material on the jib too. I have not seen a cat furler up close. Does the sail wrap around the cable, or is there a foil or something between the swivel at the top, and the furler drum on the bottom? I imagine you can't just recycle your current cable.
Has anyone tried this? What tips, warnings or ideas do you have?
Replacing Halyards with Rope/Cable Combos on a P18, Any Experience?
-
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Feb 06, 2009
- Last visit: Jun 25, 2017
- Posts: 223
Posted: Aug 08, 2011 - 06:13 AM
-
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Oct 19, 2006
- Last visit: Aug 16, 2017
- Posts: 613
Posted: Aug 08, 2011 - 08:21 AM
Kenny, I recently replaced the jib setup on my P18 at a reasonable cost, granted, I did have the Harken small boat furler already. There are 2 options, 1 - use the Hobie style furler but this entails ordering new bridles to fit that furler or 2 - use the Harken small boat furler which connects directly to the bridles at the shackle.
Method for Harken Small Boat Furler
1) If you are happy with your existing mast rake on your P16, measure your forestay pull to pull with all hardware exactly as if it were on the cat if mast was stepped, including all shackles. Take forestay out into yard with 2 screwdrivers, pin 1st screwdriver through mast hound shackle at top of forestay, pull forestay tight and pin 2nd screwdriver through bottom of turnbuckle where it connects to bridle wires. Measure forestay.
2) Measure luff of jib using same method as above, pin top and bottom of jib using screwdriver through headand foot grommets, get your jib luff measurement. You need to add 1 inch to your jib luff measurement for thimbles which are 1/2 inch long each.
3) You will need to order a custom made forestay (Murrays $49), it will fit the jib luff zipper pocket and the thimbles will stick out of the pocket 1/2 inch either end, you will need shackles to secure the jib to the forestay through the head/foot grommets.
4) Harken small boat furler measures 5 inches pull to pull...http://www.harkenstore.co….ShowProd?B4RPMEB9Y9CLES
5) You will also need a 10 hole stay adjuster if you want to be able to adjust your mast rake later, measure from bottom of adjuster to center hole pull to pull. Attach stay adjuster to top of furler drum.
6) This is the tricky part, add your new measurements, Harken small boat furler + 10 hole stay adjuster + new lower forestay = ???. Subtract this figure from your original measurement from Step 1 = length of new upper forestay (Murrays $25)
So your new forestay measurements (Harken Small Boat Furler + 10 hole stay adjuster + lower forestay + upper forestay) should be exactly the same as your original measurements from step 1. Total Cost $75, in your case you will have to add the cost of the Harken Furler.
Turbo
--
TurboHobo
H14T
H16
P18
G-Cat 5.0
P16
-- -
- Rank: Chief
- Registered: Nov 26, 2009
- Last visit: Aug 10, 2024
- Posts: 2531
Posted: Aug 08, 2011 - 12:41 PM
Kenny, I think you will find the roller furling to be one of the best upgrades you can make, especially when launching/retrieving off dock or tight quarters.
First off, get hold of the Harken small boat Furler, (drum & swivel) Get the high load model, (435?) The only difference is the bearings, Torlon in the Hi Load. You can get it for $221, note the website will show a higher price, as that is the minimum LIST PRICE, when you add it to your cart the price will go down.
Here is one vendor, you may be able to get a local place to match it. Used ones go for around $150, so for a few bucks more you can get brand new.
http://www.defender.com/p…299748|750993&id=1015158
Now, the Prindle uses a different method to hoist the jib, but I don't see why you cannot use the same thing as the Nacra 5.7, or Andrews Mystere. Forget about the jib connections & S hooks at the top. Just change the forestay so that you have a pigtail at the top.
The forestay needs to be 5" shorter to allow for the furler, another 1 .5" for the tang, and another amount depending on how you decide to attach the stay to the drum, PTB, stay adjuster etc. You can cut your old stay, or get a new one & keep the old incase you decide to change boats & want to sell & keep the furler for your new boat. It is best to figure out how you will make all the connections, as that determines what type of ends you use. It sounds obvious, but a thimble at top & marine eye at bottom might work better than two thimbles. ie thimble as in the photo, or marine eye.
First a small tang attaches to the mast hound, then the upper swivel, then the thimble of the forestay. The bottom of the forestay can end several ways, before it connects to the drum. I eschew all the lower adjusters, & use 4' of V-12 Vectran to construct a Portuguese Turnbuckle, between the end of the forestay & a 1" ring on the top of the drum. This allows quite bit of room to play with mast rake, & I leave the shrouds as is, & haul on the PTB to tension rig. This is not my photo, but I use the same idea.
Now, hang a small block from the pigtail,(at top of forestay) Run your jib halyard around this block. Now, as you hoist the jib, you will zipper it around the forestay, & THE HALYARD. Get it, the halyard will also run inside the zipper, back down to the drum. Instead of tensioning the jib from the tack, you will tie the tack,(or use a small shackle) to the lower end of the shroud, or somewhere on the drum or PTB.
It will be tensioned by pulling on the halyard, then tying off at the drum or PTB. This will give a 2:1 purchase, which is fine if you are not a competitive racer, you are only pulling the wrinkles out of the jib. Now unhook the sister clip & stow.
I leave my boat mast up & jib furled (with a UV strip on jib) so I don't use a sister clip.
I didn't want to bother with tying/untying the halyard each time I tension the jib, so I threaded a small clam cleat to the PTB. I used a 21' piece of 3.8mm Spyder line (in bright lime green, cause it looks cool, & I remember Damon saying, never underestimate the cool factor
) as a halyard.
All I do is tension the rig via PTB, then pull on the halyard, slide the end into the clam cleat, & the jib is ready to be unfurled.
I have not had time to work up a proper album in the tech section. Send me an email addy via PM here, (so your email doesn't show up), & I'll send you a bunch of photos I took while converting mine, a few photos make much more sense than 3000 words.
There are a bunch of different ways to connect things, & your particular situation may determine what is the "best" way for your use. Many people would not bother with the clam cleat, I'm starting from a dock, & can barely reach the drum when standing in the water, & don't dare rig it on the lift, so I found the addition of the cleat to make life easier.
There are also some photos that I've gathered from other peoples setups in my members album NACRA 5.7, right next to yours. I think I stole one of Andrews that shows the top end fairly well.
The other thing that might happen is the jib sheet ends up being a bit to short. I just used a longer bit of line looped through the jib clew, & tied the ends to the jib blocks.
When you furl the jib, remember to wrap the furler line around the mast, or tie another piece of line through the clew & around the jib as a safety. If the wind is blowing & the furler line comes out of the cleat, the jib will unfurl & beat itself to death.
--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
-- -
- Rank: Lubber
- Registered: Dec 18, 2010
- Last visit: Aug 27, 2013
- Posts: 56
Posted: Aug 08, 2011 - 11:45 PM
Awesome narrative, thanks for posting that! You've got me talked into installing one.
--
Jeremy Hales
1974 SOLCAT 18
Salem, OR
-- -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Mar 25, 2002
- Last visit: Sep 27, 2012
- Posts: 187
Posted: Aug 09, 2011 - 06:57 AM
@kgatesman
re: main halyards: multihull main halyards are generally locked above because we use so much downhaul. Mast compression is also reduced by locking atop the mast.
See if you can get a look at the Marström style halyard lock, might give you some idea of alternative halyard lock styles. Halyard has slug that slips into a keyway and the lock mechanism is internal to the mast. It's clever but I've never seen one on a small boat. Prolly 'cause: 1) you have to have internal halyards and on a small boat you don't want holes in your mast and 2) weight aloft which proportionally to a small boat is more detrimental
Main halyards with ring and aft mast hook (not sure what you have now) are more technique-ish to operate, but you can learn to drop your main on the water. Go sailing more often
. If you have the H16 style with the forward-mounted hook and slug, then you prolly can't drop/raise on the water because you have to go forward to do so
-
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Feb 06, 2009
- Last visit: Jun 25, 2017
- Posts: 223
Posted: Aug 09, 2011 - 07:10 PM
So if I have a bunch of tension from a loaded halyard in the mast, it won't bend as intended?
I still have to proceed someway. The Y Flyer mast has a magic box, a jib and main cunningham, two cables running up the mast, and that mast still bends, and the mast is shorter and 1/3 the Prindle's diameter (means stiffer, right?). The Prindle Mast is extra bendy. I am counting on tighter or looser diamond wires to offset this pressure from the top and bottom pressure made by the halyards (maybe, I don't know crap, tell me I am absurd, I might be).
My new minimal effort mainsail idea is to simply replace the main halyard with the lowest stretch line I can get and tie it off at the cleat at the mast base. This job could be done in a jiffy, I could adapt the to cable/rope plan or return to stock.
I really want to be able to hang the sail on the water, while crew is rowing, and not have to deal with that hook and loop.
The jib tips are awesome. Thanks guys. -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Mar 25, 2002
- Last visit: Sep 27, 2012
- Posts: 187
Posted: Aug 15, 2011 - 06:44 AM
Thanks to Ron Beliech for his clear lowering instructions. I would only add that you should spray silicone the crap out of the main's luff rope.
1. Unhook the downhaul and pull the bottom of the main out of the sail track.
2. With the boat head to wind, standing between the hulls, infront of the mast, facing aft, pull on the halyard on the port side, pulling the ring above the hook.
3. Grab the rotater and push it hard toward the starboard hull.
4. While keeping the mast rotated, grab the foot of the sail and pull down a few inches, then release the rotator, the sail should come down.
Another thing that may help is undo the bowline to the ring and use a stoper knot and have the knot facing aft or just reduce the size of the knot so you can pull the halyard higher.
Edited by nacra55 on Aug 14, 2011 - 09:41 PM.
--
Ron
Nacra F18
Brandon, MS -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Aug 06, 2004
- Last visit: Oct 20, 2024
- Posts: 878
Posted: Aug 15, 2011 - 08:08 AM
i USED TO HAVE AN OLDER SUPER CAT 20 AND THE MAIN HALYARD HAD A HOBIE STYLE HALYARD HOOK INSIDE THE LUFF TRACK A FOOT OR SO FROM THE BOTTOM OF THE MAST. THE WIRE PORTION OF THE HALYARD WAS INTERNAL LIKE THE P-18 NACRA 6.0 ETC. AFTER HOISTING THE MAIN THE HALYARD HOOKED THE SAME AS IT WOULD ON A H-16 EXCEPT THAT IT IS NOW AT THE BOTTOM OF THE MAST ON THE INSIDE OF THE LUFF TRACK. IT ALLOWED ME TO RAISE OR LOWER THE MAIN FROM THE TRAMP AREA. THE HALYARD WAS A COMBO OF LINE AND WIRE WITH A NICROPRESS FITTING, IT DID NOT HAVE ANOTHER NICROPRESS FITTING FOR REEFING BUT I AM SURE YOU COULD ADD ONE IF NEEDED. IT WORKEED REAL WELL.
Users on-line
- 0 users
This list is based on users active over the last 60 minutes.