Can't make up my mind...
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- Rank: Lubber
- Registered: Aug 19, 2011
- Last visit: Aug 20, 2011
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Posted: Aug 19, 2011 - 11:59 AM
Hello everyone, I have been sailing my hobie 16 for a few years now, and I love it, but I want to upgrade, and where I live we have Wednesday and Friday night races where I am competing against Nacra F18's and other higher performance catamarans than the hobie 16, even with my handicap and when I am singling I just can't keep up, then when I am not racing I usually take out me and 2 other friends for rides and such. So I want my upgrade to allow me to race by myself but also bring friends on the weekends. There is a hobie 17 for sale in my area but I heard that if you put more than 2 people on it, it is not very good, and there is a Nacra 5.5 that is in great condition down here too but it is a little expensive. I was also thinking about getting a hobie 18 but those look tuff to single. Another option I was thinking about was investing in new sails for my 16 and just fixing it up better, so I don't know what to do and I was hoping you guys can help
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Posted: Aug 19, 2011 - 02:50 PM
Upgrade is the way to go if you want to sail with the big boys!
The H16 is a great boat but has some very real limitations, the only upgrade really worth it would be a spin kit. The H17 is a singlehander through and through, probably not the best boat if you want to sail with 2 or more people. H18s are great solid boats and probably aren't much harder to singlehand than a 16. The only caveat is that you will want to add a mast bob and a righting bag or pole to it for singlehanding. The 5.5 is closer to an F18 in performance but if its expensive then give it a pass, it isn't that much faster than an H18. None of these 18 ft boats is really able to keep up with an F18, provided the person sailing the F18 is at least as skilled or more skilled than you. If you are about equal then you have a fighting chance. Another boat to consider would be a Prindle 18-2.
If you are going for even more performance and only rarely singlehand (if at all) there is always the P-19 (basically a scaled down tornado) and the Nacra 5.8.
If that is what you want there are quite a few F18's available on here, see if there are any near you and in your price range (not sure if you can singlehand an F18).
Edited by Wolfman on Aug 19, 2011 - 02:51 PM.
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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Aug 19, 2011 - 03:21 PM
A few years is not that long for getting up to speed racing a beach cat. I would think that the sailors on the boats you are racing against have much more experience. You say “even with my handicap and when I am singling I just can't keep up” A H16 is not going to keep up with F18’s boat for boat, neither are any of the other boats you list, that is what the handicap system is for. The N5.5, if it’s a sloop, will keep up upwind but not down. What’s expensive? Where are you?
You want a boat that will keep up boat for boat with F18’s and other higher performance catamarans while sailing solo. Sounds like an F16, $10,000.00 plus used if you can find one. Why not get a crew and an F18? You can get into an F18 much cheaper than the F16. What’s your crew weight? Sail what the others in the area sail and you will get up to speed much quicker. F18’s are not single handers, too many lines and things happen quick.
Why not stay with the H16 that you love and promote your class? Get some other 16s involved. As for taking friends out, why not keep it to a crew of 2, the ride will be so much better, 3 or more onboard hurts performance, is crowded, and makes it harder to sail with the drag and loaded up helm.
I disagree with putting a spin on a H16, I’ve sailed one. They are very twitchy and hard to keep the spin full and drawing. If your sails are old and blown out, put your money into a new main and jib.
Just my opinion
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Ron
Nacra F18
Reservoir Sailing Assn.
Brandon, Mississippi
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Posted: Aug 19, 2011 - 05:09 PM
Well, as someone said its all about you and less about the boat. I have an H18, I let a VERY good (world champion on albacores) sailor take it out and he beat a handfull of F-18's an f-16 and an A-cat with it. Beat them outright, no handi-cap and no spin. I came away from that experience thinking my boat was pretty fast. I added a spin and I raced the same boats thinking I would do well and found myself in last place, I mean WAY back. Its ALL about experience.
My H-18 is a handful to solo, its not something I would want to do. Forget about righting it solo when you capsize.
I took a ride on an F-18 (Nacra Infusion) thinking it would be about like my H18. It took about 6 seconds to throw that idea out the window. There is no way you would want to solo an F-18. What thing made my H18 look like a moped vs. a hayabusa!
I can take all my friends on ride, I can get anywhere on the lake I want to. But I look like a complete fool on the race course. I vote you keep the H16 and keep racing it. Once your competitive with the handi-cap, move up if you like.
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Greenville SC
Offering sails and other go fast parts for A-class catamarans
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Posted: Aug 20, 2011 - 08:51 PM
hey guys, thanks so much for the responses and I have decided to keep the 16 and just slowly upgrade it, this year I will re-fiberglass the bottom of the hulls and re-rivet the jib traveler track, and eventually get a spinnaker and new sails down the road. Another question though, the hardware that hobie sells to put a spinnaker on is 1600 dollars, I bought my boat for less than that! Is there any other way to get it, or make my own? And thanks again for helping me make my decision!
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Posted: Aug 20, 2011 - 10:48 PM
Keep your eyes open! Quite a few spinakers come up for sale on the classifieds here. You may find one to fit your boat or one that can be recut to fit. You can get a length of aluminum tube for the pole pretty easily at any metal supply place. The small parts you can put together used without much trouble, there are a couple of guys on here who sell lots of small parts. The most expensive and difficult parts to find are the snuffer bag itself and the mid pole hoop. They do come up occasionally but not often and almost never cheap.
D.
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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Aug 22, 2011 - 10:23 AM
I've been reading this site for a while, just finally singed up, great site, in comparison to the veterans on this site I'm pretty new to cat sailing but I've done a TON of research and hands on learning on the past couple years.
What year is a H16 hookey? I do know that the newer (I think after 1983 or so) H16s are significantly lighter than the older ones, if you have a older H16, upgrading your hulls might help a lot (get the money by selling your older hobie), easy find on craigslist. There are also a ton of easy to find upgrades for the H16.
Also the H16 has a HUGE racing fleet across the country, if they don't have a H16 race in your area, I'm willing to bet that there is one nearby.
The popularity of the H16 surpasses it's ability to keep up with the newer cats, but you can still move really well on one, if you are happy with it keep it and keep your eyes open to expand your fleet, it never hurts to have a couple to a few cats in a collection.
On the Spinn kit, use searchtempest.com it searches all craigslists for a given range (miles)it awesome you might find a spinn kit and take a sailing trip to it or convince the seller to ship it or ebay.
Good luck, what area are you in? I'm sure some of the guys here will tell you where to race H16's -
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Posted: Aug 22, 2011 - 01:49 PM
I solo'd my H-18 often, and my mystere 5.5 (which has center boards vs the dagger boards of the Mystere F-18 Twister) 90% of the time, even in high winds. It does take knowing how to depower and handle a boat very well... but it is completely do-able.
I would say new sails can't be beat.. but upgrading to a more modern cat design, and a bigger at that, can really expand your skillset more than new sails will. -
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Posted: Aug 22, 2011 - 05:47 PM
I solo my Hobie 18 more than I have crew, even during races. I can right the boat without poles or buckets but of course I'm a little larger than average. However, technique is everything and I know someone who probably weighs 100 pounds less than I do who also solos the H18 and can right it (as they need to quite often
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If I was lighter I could show off like this instead of just staying planted sitting on the wings.
Instead I don't even rig the trap wires on my boat.
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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN
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Posted: Aug 22, 2011 - 05:54 PM
Yes, "time on the boat" and practice, not just cruising around is needed to get good.
But in your case it's also about adding a spin to a non-spin boat. I've resisted the urge to add a spinnaker to my H18 because I'm not convinced of the percent benefit vs the added complexity and weight of the rig. The H18 already has a giant jib and does very well down wind, which is the only time the spin can help, so you take a large rating hit but don't get the percent increase in performance the rating hit is designed for.
Just my opinion, no science to back it up.
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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN
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Posted: Aug 22, 2011 - 07:50 PM
that stinks. Put a spin on that thang! you can fly a wing or do the wild thing under a chute
In good air i have double trapped off a very overweight mystere 6.0 ... 2 on the wire, skipper still sitting on the wing. in 25+,., it was / is a hoot.. i hope i get to do it again this fall.
i did personally take my crew trap rig off because its rare to need (or ability) to double trap and the damn thing gets caught in the jib and spin..
fall is around the corner (wind here) so i may put it back on
Edited by MN3 on Aug 22, 2011 - 07:52 PM.
