I realize everybody is going to BS, but I'm curious on what kinds of speeds you have recorded.
I use a regular $100 dollar touch screen car GPS in a waterproof bag. There has a read out for Max speed.
Monday I went out with my brother and no harnesses. We hit 20.2 mph.
Wednesday I went out again, 2 of us and with just my crew on the wire, we hit 22.3 mph. Mind you this is a 1981 Hobie 18, not an SE or a Magnum. just old.
So how fast are you?
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Nacra 6.0 NA
Ogden Dunes, IN
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Your boats top speed.
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Posted: Sep 09, 2011 - 12:23 PM
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Posted: Sep 09, 2011 - 03:06 PM
Just under light speed! But since I do the speed limit on da highway (save fuel and money) I let it all hang out with the wind (since it is free for now)! I really dont know how fast.........just before pitchpole and flippin is my best guess. My speed gage is my grin.....the faster I go........the bigger the grin
Edited by BigNasty on Sep 09, 2011 - 03:07 PM.
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1976 Prindle 16, Sailing since 1969, Retired Chief USCG, Disabled Vet, Father of 3 great daughters!
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Posted: Sep 09, 2011 - 03:38 PM
I would say that i can hit about 100mph with my opti
I think on a good day i can hit about 10mph if im lucky and in ideal perfect conditions. -
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Posted: Sep 09, 2011 - 08:26 PM
I'm sorry
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Nacra 6.0 NA
Ogden Dunes, IN
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Posted: Sep 09, 2011 - 11:21 PM
There was a thread on this (GPS Speed) a few months back. I stated that GPS "max speed" could be several mph off. Others opinions differed. This question intrigued me, as the GPS manuals say very little about errors. They will all state they are accurate to "X" feet, but this is POTENTIAL accuracy, they tend to skip over what percentage of readings attain this value. If you believe they are always locked in the groove, just lay the unit down, then select "present position." Watch the numbers dance as it thinks it is here, no wait, abit over there, oops maybe I'm further south than that.
In HongKong, early July, I took my Garmin with me, & started walking down the seawall. I tried to walk a pretty constant speed. With a couple of button clicks, I can reset "max speed".
I walk about 5 k/hr(3 mph) I stopped counting after 45 resets, but in every case the GPS would show 8-9 k/hr , appx 6 mph as max speed, an error of nearly 100%.
The fault lies in how GPS calculates speed. The iteration rate is not 10 times/second. Also the GPS has a position error. It thinks you are at point "X", then a few seconds later thinks you are at point "Y", so to cover that distance in that time, you had to be going "z" speed.
The faster you are going, the more accurate it becomes. If I get on my bike, & leisurely pedal at appx 15 mph, the error seems to drop to only 1-2 mph, & in my car at hiway speed it seems to be perhaps 1 mph.
This is why all speed records are established from a sustained speed over a distance, say 100-500 meters. A radar gun is more accurate at instantaneous speed than GPS because it uses the speed of light (3x10 to the eigth power) as its basis for calculation. The error is very small.
If you can hold onto a speed for 20-30 seconds, the GPS will also be very accurate. If you sail at 15 kts, then accelerate to 20, & hold it for 10 seconds, the reading will be very accurate. However, the "max speed" shown may have only been calculated over 1 iteration, & that can be out a couple mph. Consumer units, as far as I'm aware cannot break your data down into milli second intervals that have been measured, that sort of accuracy would mean an iteration rate of 1000 X per second, & battery life would be so short the units would not sell.
Don't get me wrong, they are accurate. If you can get 20 seond legs that show 20 mph, you are doing that speed. BUT, if you can only log 18 mph on a regular basis,no matter what the wind, then one day you see you were doing 19, with a max speed of 23, it is probably not fair to brag that you Cat does 23. If you actually attained 23, for a millisecond or two, is it fair to say "my Cat will do 23".
In reality most people cannot tell the difference between 19 & 20 on the water, so the argument is academic at best.
It always reminds me of a module we did in University physics, the Science of Hi Fi. In those days,(Lp 33 1/3 RPM vinyl) turntables were advertised as being "accurate to within 1/1000 of an RPM, & amps bragged about being Class B push pull @ .0015% Total harmonic distortion (THD), in order to give you a "true sound experience". Of course this was at a premium price. In test after test we proved that human ears, working in analog, could not distinguish between several full percentage points of THD, or a full rpm error, & all amps were push/pull.
If you can occasionaly get 20mph out of a 30 yr old cat, be happy, & don't bet the boat that it will go 23. You might run into a scientist, & be looking for a new ride.
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Hobie 18 Magnum
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Posted: Sep 10, 2011 - 08:05 PM
The problem with walking is your never at a set rate of speed your constantly going fast the slow. Esspecially if your holding the GPS in your hand. and as for pin point accuaracy that's not as important when dealing with speed. Whether it knows exactly where you are or not it will still accurately depict your movement.
My proof behind this theory, Im an avid triathlete. When I ride to new places I mount the GPS on the handlebars right next to the bike computer. There is nothing more accurate than the bike computer, given I have measured the radius from the axel to the ground with the bike under load, and the GPS as far as I can tell is dead on. Even the max speeds are within 0.1 mph
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Nacra 6.0 NA
Ogden Dunes, IN
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Posted: Sep 11, 2011 - 08:15 AM
Thats killin it in an opti...
Have faith, he will be out sailing us in a cat in just a few months or so.... -
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Posted: Sep 11, 2011 - 11:21 AM
I don't have my Garmin with me at the moment, but I believe you can go in and adjust the "rounding" of the measurements. Check the manual, because it has been a few years since I changed my settings. I use mine for running, and I can hold a steady 6:30/mi pace and watch the Garmin's instantaneous speed bounce around between 5:00/mi and 7:00/mi. If you adjust the frequency at which the Garmin takes readings when calculating the speed, it will help to smooth out the fluctuations in satellite signals, and give you a more constant reading. This will slow down the response time in your readings, for example if I throw in a quick surge from 6:30 to 5:45, it will take several seconds to see the pace slowly increase on the Garmin.
I have found the same accuracy on my bike as Kevin219 mentioned above. In fact I don't even bother mounting my bike computer anymore.
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Barry Jones
1982 NACRA 5.8
Space Coast, Florida
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Posted: Sep 11, 2011 - 01:57 PM
Garminless... sans the GPS. I timed my H16 at 18mph. Give or take what ever you think the + or - could be. That was the average speed. I am sure we pushed well past the 20mph mark.
Used a map and stop watch and had at it.
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The Bone
H16
Mass / NH
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Posted: Sep 11, 2011 - 11:40 PM
I think the gps would be better to mark two points and then use a good ole watch to check the time between these points. You may be able to mark a spot then set the watch and mark anouther spot 15 min later and times 4. HMMMM I have been thinking about this also but the info on the accuracy of the gps is interesting. -
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Posted: Sep 12, 2011 - 07:54 AM
I also believe the instantaneous speed measurements on the GPS's are not really accurate, and are less accurate the slower you are going.
I do not agree with this suggestion. Since it is the pin point location that is used to calculate speed. If the accuracy is 5 feet and you move 20 feet between readings. The GPS could read either you went 30 feet or you went 10 feet, that would be a huge speed difference. So the faster you go, the smaller the location accuracy error impact is. This is what allows average speed to be very accurate. This is also the reason behind adjusting the sample rate of the speed calculation.
For a speed reading I think the average speed on a 5-10 minute reach would be much more accurate then the max speed your GPS reports.
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Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
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Posted: Sep 12, 2011 - 08:33 AM
and a 6:30 pace ain't bad for 10 miles of so, but its still not as fun.
I just use the bike computer as a backup in case my battery dies, while I'm on a time trial.
And i know this topic is turning into a debate more than a collection of capabilities between boats, but remember this...
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Nacra 6.0 NA
Ogden Dunes, IN
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Posted: Sep 12, 2011 - 11:26 AM
My brother and I averaged over 22mph on multiple reaches one day on his SuperCat 20. Don't remember the exact numbers, was a couple years ago. With two of us on the wire.
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Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
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Posted: Sep 12, 2011 - 01:43 PM
70mph on the way to the lake - less once i got there :)
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85 Prindle 16
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North Carolina
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Posted: Oct 16, 2011 - 08:55 PM
I sail an F16 Stealth, F18HT, Boyer A cat, ARC 22, and a custom 24' cat, and use a Garmin Foretrex 201. I agree with the several comments above about the questionable nature of the max speed of these small units. I observe steady high teens in all these boats, but rarely see them over 20 for very long.
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Posted: Oct 16, 2011 - 09:59 PM
I sailed with a GPS on my 5.2 a few times last season, and found that I couldn't get any meaningful info out of instantaneous, or 'max', speed readings. However, tracking speed over time was very helpful, and I have no reason to believe it was inaccurate.
I think the best I did was 19 mph average over 1/4 mile. I averaged 19 over several shorter distances as well, but in any config -- 1 up, 2up w/ one trapped, double trapped, etc -- I never averaged 20 or more over anything more than 50 feet or so.
I'm certainly not the best sailor around, but I got to know that 5.2 pretty well, and I have trouble believing anyone could get one to go much faster (re: raw speed) with the standard sloop rig (ie no spin)...it just starts to drag too many things through the water, and sprays like crazy.
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Rob
OKC
Pile of Nacra parts..
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Posted: Nov 02, 2014 - 01:00 PM
I've got a current record of 6.22 miles in 25 minutes, about 15 mph average, on a Hobie 16, in rough conditions (reefed main, 25+ mph winds, reaching). Not sure how much more the 16 has to give, probably a bit more though.
Edited by rcnesneg on Nov 02, 2014 - 12:07 PM.
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Small sailboat designer, builder, and Cat Sailor. 8' Keelboat, Hobie Fox,Prindle 16.
Rear Commodore, Utah Lake Yacht Club - Mostly sail Hobie Fox (Formula-20)
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Posted: Nov 02, 2014 - 07:52 PM
Reading this thread I searched for my garmin foretrex 201 in my storage.
Just to see it was really set to nautical miles and it is.
With average winds in the 4 to 6 Beaufort range, my (now sold) p18-2 did
14 to 16,5 knots solo and 15 to 18 knots crewed.
Spi up, personal best 18,3 and with crew 20,3 knots.
Last Tornado ride, we did tick 18 knots, spi up. 3-4 Beaufort.
Don't want to brag, I just was wondering if there's something going
wrong in converting numbers.
That said, under ideal circumstances, there's almost no chop on
our lake.
Regards, André
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Tornado (80's Reg White)
Prindle 18-2 (sold)
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Amsterdam, the Netherlands
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Posted: Nov 02, 2014 - 10:21 PM
I hit 50.1 first run out at Ivanpah in Primm, Nv. yesterday morning on my twin. Opps it's a landsailor. Pete -
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Posted: Nov 03, 2014 - 09:52 AM
I made the Kessel Run in 10.8 parsecs on my Hobie 18.
Edited by presto13031 on Nov 03, 2014 - 10:53 AM.
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Jeff
Houston TX
1986 Hobie 18 Sail# 13031
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