• motivated
  
  

  • Rank: Mate
  • Registered: May 27, 2011
  • Last visit: Sep 17, 2014
  • Posts: 145

  Posted: Sep 14, 2011 - 09:17 AM

  Okay, let me start with this...Hobie Cat (the company) needs to hire a technical writer for a few months to completely revamp their product documentation and instructions. This kit was very expensive and the instructions were pathetic, cryptic, incomplete, and in some cases, just plain wrong.
  
  I installed the Spinnaker Kit from Hobie Cat last week and tested it out. I encountered two problems. First, the instructions did not give good guidance as to where on the pole the snuffer ring should be mounted. I installed mine as per the photo below. However, when trying to reel in the sail, it gets hung up on the bridle. I am thinking I need to move the ring farther out towards the end of the pole, but how far? Any thoughts?
  
  
  
  The second issue concerns the blocks that control the sheet which is attached to the tack of the sail. The kit included two Harken Carbo Ratchet blocks, they are installed as per the photo below (one on each side of the tramp). The sheet is a loop that is controlled from the back of the boat much like the jib sheet. This block system does not hold the sheet in place without some tension on my end of the sheet. Without that tension, the line just slips through the block. So, when the spin is deployed, I'm forced to hold the spin sheet or it will release and allow the sail to flutter. I want to replace these blocks with one Harken Swivel Cam on each side rail, so they'll lock the sheet in place when the sail is set. I posted a pic below of the present set up. What have I done wrong? The instructions were completely useless in describing how the blocks should be situated. There is nothing at the business end of the sheet (back where the captain sits) to keep tension loaded on the line.
  
  
  
  --
  Karl, Captain of Stayin' Thirsty
  2011 Hobie 16SE
  Atlanta, GA
  --

  • 
  •  
• bacho
  
  

  • Rank: Mate
  • Registered: Jun 17, 2011
  • Last visit: Sep 24, 2023
  • Posts: 783

  Posted: Sep 14, 2011 - 10:11 AM

  Issue #2. I do not think you ever want to cleat the sheet in place. Thats pretty much exactly how my sheet is run. I have not had any problems with it. I thknk you should try working on a method for launching. I have just let mine flutter till raised. Its aweful hard to pull up it's sheeted anyways
  
  --
  Greenville SC
  
  Offering sails and other go fast parts for A-class catamarans
  --

  • 
  •  
• nacra55
  
  

  • Rank: Mate
  • Registered: Nov 02, 2004
  • Last visit: Aug 07, 2023
  • Posts: 626

  Posted: Sep 14, 2011 - 11:10 AM

  Picture 1
  Move the hoop about half way out toward the end of the pole. There should be some clips on the end of the sock that hook to the dolphin striker to keep the sock snug. By moving the hoop out, this will keep your spin halyard away from the jib and bridle. Get some 3mm line and tie a stopper knot in one end. Drill a small hole in the hoop at the outside aft corner just large enough for the line. Run the line thru the hole with the knot on the inside of the hoop where the sock attaches and tie the line to the bridle tang. This will prevent the pole and hoop from rotating. Put some more tension on the line that pulls the pole up to the bridle, prebend.
  
  Picture 2
  Do not use cleats. Turn the block on the beam over. If the swivel has a lock on it, a small switch, lock it so that it will not swivel. If it is not a ratchet block, you may want to replace it with an auto ratchet or manual ratchet (cheaper and has a switch to turn ratchet on and off, usefull in light air). I use autos by the shrouds and manuals on the beam.
  
  Not sure what you are using for halyard but a good single braid such a s swiftcord will not twist up on sets and douses.
  
  
  
  Edited by nacra55 on Sep 14, 2011 - 11:15 AM.
  
  --
  Ron
  Nacra F18
  Reservoir Sailing Assn.
  Brandon, Mississippi
  --

  • 
  •  
• motivated
  
  

  • Rank: Mate
  • Registered: May 27, 2011
  • Last visit: Sep 17, 2014
  • Posts: 145

  Posted: Sep 14, 2011 - 11:52 AM

  Thanks for the great info. So, when I'm sailing solo and have the spin deployed, I should be adjusting the spin instead of the main? Sorry for the neophyte question, but I had the thought that once the spin was set, I'd sail the boat as I normally do with one hand on the tiller and one on the main sheet.
  
  How much control do you have over the boat with just the tiller and spin sheet, particularly in gusty conditions? I mostly sail solo, so there's not a whole lot of balast to keep the windward hull in the water.
  
  And, thanks again for the great info.
  
  --
  Karl, Captain of Stayin' Thirsty
  2011 Hobie 16SE
  Atlanta, GA
  --

  • 
  •  
• nacra55
  
  

  • Rank: Mate
  • Registered: Nov 02, 2004
  • Last visit: Aug 07, 2023
  • Posts: 626

  Posted: Sep 14, 2011 - 12:44 PM

  You do NOT want to play the main. The main is snug and is the back stay while under spin. Play the travler, not so easy on a 16. I use two different lines of different colors tied togather for main and travler. Under spin, cleat the main snug and put it on the tramp, pickup the travler and play it if needed. In a gust, bear off to blead off power and settle the boat down, need more power and want to get the hull up, sail higher. The Idea is to keep the winward hull flying, the apparent wind goes forward as speed increases, the main is set for upwind even though you are sailing down.
  
  --
  Ron
  Nacra F18
  Reservoir Sailing Assn.
  Brandon, Mississippi
  --

  • 
  •  
• MN3
  
  

  • Rank: Master Chief
  • Registered: Jun 20, 2006
  • Last visit: May 22, 2024
  • Posts: 7089

  Posted: Sep 14, 2011 - 12:45 PM

  Quote

  So, when I'm sailing solo and have the spin deployed, I should be adjusting the spin instead of the main? Sorry for the neophyte question, but I had the thought that once the spin was set, I'd sail the boat as I normally do with one hand on the tiller and one on the main sheet.

  
  
  Yes, the main should be sheeted and left alone. yout main is now acting as a backstay (stopping yoru mast from bending forward). On my cat, in med air i have my main sheeted semi hard and traveled out to my straps (depending a bit on my heading, but the deeper downwind the more traveler i use)
  
  How much control do you have over the boat with just the tiller and spin sheet, particularly in gusty conditions? I mostly sail solo, so there's not a whole lot of balast to keep the windward hull in the water.[/quote]
  
  How much control? total... If you need to go slower ... go deeper downwind, want to speed/heat it up... point higher (relatively.. your still going downwind)
  
  
  PS when i had an H18 and purchased the $800 casting upgrade kit.. the instructions stunk too!
  
  
  
  Edited by MN3 on Sep 14, 2011 - 12:46 PM.

  • 
  •  
• motivated
  
  

  • Rank: Mate
  • Registered: May 27, 2011
  • Last visit: Sep 17, 2014
  • Posts: 145

  Posted: Sep 14, 2011 - 01:36 PM

  Spinnaker 101. Awesome stuff, thanks.
  
  --
  Karl, Captain of Stayin' Thirsty
  2011 Hobie 16SE
  Atlanta, GA
  --

  • 
  •  
• MN3
  
  

  • Rank: Master Chief
  • Registered: Jun 20, 2006
  • Last visit: May 22, 2024
  • Posts: 7089

  Posted: Sep 14, 2011 - 02:21 PM

  I fought my spin at first. couldn't get it to work right (operator error) the first dozen times.
  
  Spinnaker became a 4 letter word at my house with my gf (at the time). We broke up after a launch one time too!
  
  I also found a new spin would not get in the ring until it was broken in (the headboard was too stiff) and it took a lot to get it right. now i can't sail without it

  • 
  •  
• bacho
  
  

  • Rank: Mate
  • Registered: Jun 17, 2011
  • Last visit: Sep 24, 2023
  • Posts: 783

  Posted: Sep 14, 2011 - 03:14 PM

  MN3, I had the exact same issues with my fiance over the spin.
  
  --
  Greenville SC
  
  Offering sails and other go fast parts for A-class catamarans
  --

  • 
  •  
• MN3
  
  

  • Rank: Master Chief
  • Registered: Jun 20, 2006
  • Last visit: May 22, 2024
  • Posts: 7089

  Posted: Sep 14, 2011 - 05:52 PM

  i have learned the ways ... yoda told me
  
  if there are "young ladies" on board... don't sail hard.. it will make them unhappy and no one has fun

  • 
  •  
• motivated
  
  

  • Rank: Mate
  • Registered: May 27, 2011
  • Last visit: Sep 17, 2014
  • Posts: 145

  Posted: Sep 14, 2011 - 05:55 PM

  MN3

  i have learned the ways ... yoda told me
  
  if there are "young ladies" on board... don't sail hard.. it will make them unhappy and no one has fun

  
  
  To quote Yoda, "Learned the ways, you have".
  
  yes, learned that one by fire. There are times now when I just say, "maybe I should go out on this one solo"
  
  
  
  Edited by motivated on Sep 14, 2011 - 06:57 PM.
  
  --
  Karl, Captain of Stayin' Thirsty
  2011 Hobie 16SE
  Atlanta, GA
  --

  • 
  •  
• MN3
  
  

  • Rank: Master Chief
  • Registered: Jun 20, 2006
  • Last visit: May 22, 2024
  • Posts: 7089

  Posted: Sep 14, 2011 - 06:03 PM

  Quote

  The instructions were completely useless in describing how the blocks should be situated. There is nothing at the business end of the sheet (back where the captain sits) to keep tension loaded on the line

  
  
  It looks like the block on the beam is 180* with the block on the side .. which is perfect. just make sure it's reeved correctlyand it has a swivel top working (they usually come with the swivel working)... i love those ratch-o-matics. a great block and adjustable if you want to disengage the cleating. Also harken will fix them if they break (free)
  
  As described above " the business end of the sheet" is your hand. I do have cleats (attached to my side stays) to cleat the spin sheet but... it is not recommended ... really only needed for solo, on the wire reaching (well and to get a drink) but up the odds of capsize by about 30000% percent. Also leads to snuffing while still cleated.. and that only rips sails)

  • 
  •  
• eragon
  
  

  • Rank: Lubber
  • Registered: May 17, 2010
  • Last visit: Nov 23, 2012
  • Posts: 22

  Posted: Sep 15, 2011 - 12:56 AM

  the way you have the blocks now you are only getting about 90 degrees of purchase on the ratchet block (not enough and will slip) if i were you i would put the ratchet block on the tramp rail and the turning block on the front beam with a shockcord holding them together to get about 160-170 dregrees of purchase AND taper the spin sheet so that it bights on the root as well as the sides of ratchet block this will make it feel like you are holding a slack line even when the kite is powered up
  hold on and enjoy the ride

  • 
  •  
• MN3
  
  

  • Rank: Master Chief
  • Registered: Jun 20, 2006
  • Last visit: May 22, 2024
  • Posts: 7089

  Posted: Sep 15, 2011 - 08:08 AM

  Quote

  the way you have the blocks now you are only getting about 90 degrees of purchase on the ratchet block (not enough and will slip) if i were you i would put the ratchet block on the tramp rail and the turning block on the front beam with a shockcord holding them together to get about 160-170 dregrees of purchase

  
  
  
  Looks to me he's getting 180* off the rail block to turning block
  
  Please explain what a bungie will do?

  • 
  •  
• eragon
  
  

  • Rank: Lubber
  • Registered: May 17, 2010
  • Last visit: Nov 23, 2012
  • Posts: 22

  Posted: Sep 15, 2011 - 03:23 PM

  that ratchet block needs to swivel as you will be using it from many different positions so the way it is lead now will just flip over (blocks are not designed to cross lines with)
  shockcord will hold the blocks in alignment and prevent loops forming and fouling in the sheet between them on the lazy sheet side and both sides when spin is not in use
  
  
  
  
  

  Quote

  Looks to me he's getting 180* off the rail block to turning block

  
  
  rail block should be ratchet and turning block should be on front beam then all will be good

  • 
  •  
• motivated
  
  

  • Rank: Mate
  • Registered: May 27, 2011
  • Last visit: Sep 17, 2014
  • Posts: 145

  Posted: Sep 16, 2011 - 08:03 AM

  eragon

  that ratchet block needs to swivel as you will be using it from many different positions so the way it is lead now will just flip over (blocks are not designed to cross lines with)
  shockcord will hold the blocks in alignment and prevent loops forming and fouling in the sheet between them on the lazy sheet side and both sides when spin is not in use
  
  
  
  
  

  Quote

  Looks to me he's getting 180* off the rail block to turning block

  
  
  rail block should be ratchet and turning block should be on front beam then all will be good

  
  
  
  Thanks again for the great info. Funny thing, I installed these two blocks exactly as described in the instructions. I'll repeat what I said above, Hobie needs to fork out 3 months pay for a tech writer to revamp their instructions. Just pitiful.
  
  Eragon, a picture is worth a thousand words, as they say. I will be working on the Hobie this weekend and will be drilling out those rivets to re-situate the blocks. I'd be very interested to "see" how your setup looks, especially how you connected the two blocks with the shock cord.
  
  Thank you.
  
  --
  Karl, Captain of Stayin' Thirsty
  2011 Hobie 16SE
  Atlanta, GA
  --

  • 
  •  
• MN3
  
  

  • Rank: Master Chief
  • Registered: Jun 20, 2006
  • Last visit: May 22, 2024
  • Posts: 7089

  Posted: Sep 16, 2011 - 08:49 AM

  eragon

  that ratchet block needs to swivel as you will be using it from many different positions so the way it is lead now will just flip over (blocks are not designed to cross lines with)
  shockcord will hold the blocks in alignment and prevent loops forming and fouling in the sheet between them on the lazy sheet side and both sides when spin is not in use
  
  
  
  
  

  Quote

  Looks to me he's getting 180* off the rail block to turning block

  
  
  rail block should be ratchet and turning block should be on front beam then all will be good

  
  
  
  Gotcha, i didnt realize the side block was not also a ratch-o-matic...yes they should be swapped (or for extra hold, another ratch-o-matic or manual one could be used)
  
  The ratch-o-matics swivel so that would correct it'self (as long as its reeved correctly).
  
  Gotcha on the shock cord too. but i haven't seen anyone else need that (granted we all have bigger decks than an h16)

  • 
  •  
• eragon
  
  

  • Rank: Lubber
  • Registered: May 17, 2010
  • Last visit: Nov 23, 2012
  • Posts: 22

  Posted: Sep 16, 2011 - 03:20 PM

  Quote

  another ratch-o-matic or manual one could be used)

  
  
  dont be tempted to try another ratchet block as even though the two will hold a load extremely well you will not be able to ease the sheet for trimming effectively (it will be hold it or dump it)
  
  hold on and smile !

  • 
  •  
• eragon
  
  

  • Rank: Lubber
  • Registered: May 17, 2010
  • Last visit: Nov 23, 2012
  • Posts: 22

  Posted: Sep 17, 2011 - 04:57 AM

  Quote

  a picture is worth a thousand words,

  
  
  
  
  as you can see my blocks are very close because i needed all the sheet length for trapezing and you can see tapered sheet as well short shockcord not so easy to see but look closely

  • 
  •  
• MN3
  
  

  • Rank: Master Chief
  • Registered: Jun 20, 2006
  • Last visit: May 22, 2024
  • Posts: 7089

  Posted: Sep 19, 2011 - 07:38 AM

  eragon

  Quote

  another ratch-o-matic or manual one could be used)

  
  
  dont be tempted to try another ratchet block as even though the two will hold a load extremely well you will not be able to ease the sheet for trimming effectively (it will be hold it or dump it)
  
  hold on and smile !

  
  i have 2 and have no issues, even with a fat (swollen) , non tapered sheet. 1 is a manual but it can be left in either position in light air wiithout problem

  • 
  •  
•  
•  

Users on-line

• 0 users

This list is based on users active over the last 60 minutes.