After sailing single hull boats (470, laser, etc) for the last 20 years, I picked up a 83 Nacra 5.0 in the spring and absolutely love my boat (so much that my wife is rightfully jealous). It has been an absolute great sailing summer that I enjoyed with my boys (they are 6 and 8). The speed is amazing but the boat is very easy to control, I would recommend this type boat to anyone with young kids, I even pulled them behind the cat in a tube. What a blast!
Ok, let me get to the point now. Fall is here now so time has come to start thinking about fixing some of the blemishes that were present when I purchased the boat. Please take a look at my pictures, there are some visible horizontal cracks on the left hull (caused by a dock perhaps?) and I have some cracks that show on inside and outside where the rear beam connects to the hulls.
https://picasaweb.google.com/108056728691505095510/1983Nacra50#
This year I have sailed the boat approx 25 times in up to 15mph winds and visually nothing about these visible cracks has changed. Also perhaps important to mention that the boat does not take on an abnormal amount of water or anything, perhaps a cup in each hull after 3 hours of sailing (which I had asked about earlier on this forum and people said was normal).
I'm thankful for the tons of "know-how" here on this forum (I'm impressed to read the stories of folks restoring old boats) so I would really appreciate your opinion on:
(1) Do I have a safety issue here? Do you recommend that I fix any of this or is this normal wear and tear and won't get in the way of many more sailing years to come?
(2) If I should/can fix, what would be the best way to do this? What products do you like to use and work with (I got a West Marine close).
Many thanks in advance..
Marc Creemers.
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Marc C.
Cleveland, Ohio.
Current love: Nacra 5.0
Old loves: Int Laser, Int Europe, Int 470, Int 420, Vaurien
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To repair or not to repair, that's the question?
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Posted: Oct 03, 2011 - 09:58 PM
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Posted: Oct 04, 2011 - 08:23 AM
I am not familiar with the Nacra 5.0, but the cracks near the beams are not surprising given the age. When you push on the hulls, do the cracks flex or the beam flex in relation to the hull? I agree the cracks in the left hull apear to be from a dock, maybe hit while on a trailer also.
If the cracks at the beam are also on the side of the hull it would be a good winter project to add a little glass to the inside of the hulls to strengthen that point. Especially if you are towing kids etc behind the boat. I would recommend West System epoxy, it is easy to work with and does a great job. I repaired my hulls a couple year back with it and really liked the stuff, other people on here have talked good about it also. My friend used it when building his airplane, so you know people trust the stuff. Just make sure to sand the area well before first applying and then sand between each coat you apply.
If you have inside access, I would lay multiple layers of fiberglass cloth over the area. First smaller pieces over the cracks, and then some longer strips to carry the load out for several inches past the cracks.
Great to hear you enjoyed your first summer on a cat. Your boys are a great age for getting into sailing. I was about 10 when my dad got a catamaran, and I got hooked. Now 20+ years later still love it.
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‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
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Posted: Oct 04, 2011 - 10:40 AM
Marc - I'm on the same path as you but a couple months behind. I've raced 470's and Lasers mostly at the club level for 18 years, and just bought a Prindle 16 as a family boat for fun and fast sailing. My kids are 5 and 8. I've only had the boat out a few times as I've been getting it ready and learning on it. It's cooling off here, but we'll get in a few more outings before they quit due to cold, then hopefully next year we'll get it out a bunch. I had a great solo sail last weekend that was a blast.
Keep us informed on any ideas you have to make it fun for the kids.
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Prindle 16
Seabrook, Texas
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Posted: Oct 04, 2011 - 12:02 PM
FlyingDutch,
I looked at your pictures. Is the connection between the crossbar and your hull tight? Can you give the hull a Hobie 16 wiggle when you lift it from below? If it is loose, that could explain the cracks on both sides of the hull under the crossbar, and suggest a need to strengthen the area. Loosen your tramp and take the crossbar off. This will let you assess the damage directly, and see just how far into or through your hull the cracks run. It could just need external cleanup, but now is the time to make sure it is structurally sound for years to come. I know the bug you have caught about sailing the cat, and putting in the effort to check it out thoroughly now will pay off big later. -
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Posted: Oct 04, 2011 - 12:05 PM
This whole idea of" having fun" in life I don't subscribe to. Next time out, put the 8 yr old on the wire & when he's comfortable, hand him the tiller extension & have him steer a proper course. At a later time, hand him mainsheet also. My daughter started landsailing at 8 and now at 15 is an expert. She skippers my Tornado & can singlehand it in moderate winds. Adjust the trap wires properly for the kids & have them work the wire. Have them put first the jib up & down, later the main. By age 10-12 they should be able to take boat out in a confined area. My daughter started out on P-16. The idea is they are not there for "the ride", but to do all of it themselves. Pete -
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Posted: Oct 04, 2011 - 12:07 PM
Something is strange about that rear beam. I don’t remember the rear beam having the slot for the tramp or the block inside and the block on the main beam had bolts going down into the hull not coming up with a nut. Also it sure doesn’t have holes to mount the dolphin striker. Looks like someone replaced the rear beam with a main beam. Cracks on the inside could be from over tightening. Look in the manual for the pounds of torque.
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Ron
Nacra F18
Reservoir Sailing Assn.
Brandon, Mississippi
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Posted: Oct 04, 2011 - 12:41 PM
Pete - that's part of the plan, and that will be fun for them. I'm guessing your daughter had fun sailing or she wouldn't still be doing it. That's what I want, too.
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John Fricker
Prindle 16
Seabrook, Texas
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Posted: Oct 05, 2011 - 02:03 AM
I mostly agree with Ron. I have nearly the identical boat, one year newer & a few feet longer. There is no center bolt on the rear beam, it is held in place by the beam straps. Those chocks & bolt are from a front beam, their purpose is to prevent beam rotation due to forces transferred from the mast. There is no fitting in the hull to turn the bolt down into in the rear.There are two assembly manuals here, under TECH HELP.
http://www.thebeachcats.c…ictures/?g2_itemId=35212
It looks like the PO got a front beam, & because there was no fitting he drilled it, probably added a washer, then pushed the bolt up from below & attached the nut. That area is not designed to take the loads where that bolt is,(the fittings are under where the straps bolt on) & I believe you are seeing stress cracks. Remove the bolt, chocks & put a layer of glass & resin on from below, if you can reach it through inspection ports.
The slot is normal, but the tramp does not attach via a bolt rope at the rear. There should be about 7 slugs in the slot. The one at each end is fixed in place, the others are free to slide. You lace the tramp as per the manual, basically around the tube in the tramp, then through a slug.
My rear beam has a number of holes on the bottom, each corresponding with a bolt that attaches the traveler track. Each hole allows access to get the nuts in place.
If it doesn't leak I wouldn't worry about the gelcoat cracks on the side, as long as the area is not really soft. Be aware that these hulls are solid glass, they will "oil can" a bit when you walk on them, as they can flex between the bulkheads.
Edited by Edchris177 on Oct 05, 2011 - 02:09 AM.
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Posted: Oct 05, 2011 - 07:10 PM
An addenum to the above. The rear beam should only be attached by two straps at each end. Each strap uses a bolt at each end, ei 2 bolts per strap, 4 in all, at each end of beam. They are only done up to around 18 ft lbs, & make sure you have the end caps in place before tightening, or you will collapse the track. This is what it should look like. I borrowed Nacraman's photo, the boat is a 5.7, the setup is identical to yours.
Look in G Amicks album here, he has some photos of the inside of the hull, at the beam attach points. His is a 5.2, the attachments are the same idea.
http://www.thebeachcats.c…ictures/?g2_itemId=71663
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Posted: Oct 05, 2011 - 08:19 PM
Wanted all to thank you very much for your replies. Extremely helpful information and I'm going to do some more research to find out exactly why the previous owner replaced the rear with a main beam. It surely does explain the inspection gate that is installed right behind the rear beam (although I have seen this on other Nacra's as well). Since I have never de-assembled the boat, are there any tips or anything that I should pay special attention to?
One question still is goes through my mind regarding the straps, if the straps are there to just hold down the beam, wouldn't that almost become a hinge joint of some kind? What is keeping the hulls in line when one goes up when you hit a wave or something?
I'm sorry if my lines don't make sense all the time, English isn't my native language which becomes very obvious when things get a bit technical.
@smfinley. I want to make sure I understand your suggestion correctly. To repair the cracks in the hulls, you did sand down the gelcoat until you reached to the fiberglass layer? The West System Epoxy, is that white in color and is designed to replace gelcoat or did you end up painting the entire hull afterwards or something? Would you happen to have any pictures of how you repaired your hulls?
@jfricker, that's very cool to read, isn't it awesome to sail and bond with the kids? One more thing that they enjoy is to practice a "man overboard" maneuver. I thought it was important that they know to stay calm in such situations so we practiced it with a life vest a few time but then they jumped over and wanted to be picked up themselves (they just love to swim). The only thing we have yet to practice is capsizing the boat. I did not want to do this without giving some folks from my club a heads up in case we needed some help and for this reason it just didn't work out yet. If you tried it at all? Any tips you can share? Also, when you Texans say "things are cooling down" does that mean you have to sail in 80's temperatures instead of 100's? Here in Ohio when things cool down we are talking snow normally. Things are cooling down soon I'm afraid!
@Edchris177 Thanks for that link to those pictures, that's also really helpful! BTW, that beam (and I'm pretty sure it's the rear beam too) does show a tramp slot (but no bolts inside of course).
Thanks again!
Marc.
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Marc C.
Cleveland, Ohio.
Current love: Nacra 5.0
Old loves: Int Laser, Int Europe, Int 470, Int 420, Vaurien
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Posted: Oct 05, 2011 - 08:23 PM
Ahum.. As you do point out like in the next line or so. It's getting late I guess.
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Marc C.
Cleveland, Ohio.
Current love: Nacra 5.0
Old loves: Int Laser, Int Europe, Int 470, Int 420, Vaurien
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Posted: Oct 05, 2011 - 10:07 PM
Might have dropped the mast on it & bent beam.
It's about as simple as it looks. The easiest thing is to take lots of high res photos of each section of the boat before you remove anything. Later you can blow them up without loss of detail & see what was. When re assembling, put some grease on the bolt threads. Download the two legacy manuals from here, they are almost the same, but sometimes one has better photos. Go through them several times, it is amazing what you will pick up. I "think" the front & rear straps are the same. Straps from a 5.2 are slightly longer in the rear vs the front. My 5.7 are all the same, not sure about the 5.0. I wrote on the back of mine with a majic marker what spot they came from. I have seen several with ports, my 5.7 has none.
That would be true if it were only the frame of the boat. Once you lace the tramp up tightly it stiffens the entire rig.
I would leave the cracks in the side alone, you will open up a real can of worms, & it doesn't leak now, let sleeping dogs lie. It is only cosmetic. Personally i would do the same for the cracks around the beam. If you place the hull up on some stands, & turn it on its side, or upside down, you can probaly lay some matting over the beam cracks, from the inside & wet it out with resin. If you want you could later dremel out the cracks around beam & gel coat them.
West epoxy will not dry white, if you put it on the outside it will really show up. Look at the pictures I put in TECH HELP "Fixing a previous owners crummy repair job" I just got around to gelcoating that patch this summer.
Sail the crap out of your boat for a year or two, then think about cosmetics.
Edited by Edchris177 on Oct 05, 2011 - 10:13 PM.
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Posted: Oct 05, 2011 - 10:19 PM
Spend some time this winter searching these forums for topics on "sealing the mast"
Then go out & dump it a few times & practise righting it. You will require a righting line, or a pole setup of soem sort, there is quite a few threads on this topic buried here.
Push off the dock & do it on a calm day, (they can be tipped with no wind by just hanging 2 off the trap wire)I cannot usually right my 5.7 without the use of a water bag for extra weight.
If you wait until the wind is blowing to figure out how to do it, it might prove to be a bad experience, especially late in the year with cold water. Once you do it a few times there is no fear factor, then you can really hang things on the edge.
Nacraman has a 5.0 & a 5.7, I believe he said the 5.0 was almost as hard to get back up as the bigger boat. With two people it is very easy.
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Posted: Oct 06, 2011 - 09:12 AM
Cold is relative! We sailed last night and the water was 75F in Galveston Bay. My boy had a shorty on and was fine. My wife is probably done until next summer (she's a native Texan). Our club series races end in early Nov because it's "winter", but I often don't break out the wetsuit by then.
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John Fricker
Prindle 16
Seabrook, Texas
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Posted: Oct 06, 2011 - 11:53 AM
Ed, just got back from a few days camping and sailing at our favorite lake and just read through this thread. I would like to correct a couple of points you made about the rear beam on the 5.0. First, the picture you include in your post is a picture of my 5.0, not my 5.7. Second, the rear beam straps shown in the picture were not on the boat when I got it. The beams were attatched with a bolt through half-moon shaped chocks inside the beam. The inside nut was accesed by a hole on top of the beam that a guy could drop a socket through to tighten it. It was the exactly like Marc's web album photos. The rear beam on his album is correct, but what I noticed is the "tramp" slot is rotated down against the mounting chock. My 5.0 was an Ebay special and when I got it, you could grab the front of a hull, lift up a foot and the other hull would still be on the ground. I just bet that if Marc removes the nuts and the rear beam he will find the mounting holes are elongated. I included a picture of a rear beam that came from my brother-in-laws 5.0 that shows just how large they can getEfforts to tighten it up were useless as the beam holes were so worn. I ordered straps from Performance Catamarans. Since there were no inspection ports near the front beam, I had to cut away some of the decking behind the beam. I also had to Roto-Zip an access hole in the bulkhead under the beam to get to the front of the beam. The rear beam had an inspection port I could work through and no bulkhead. I flipped the hull upside down on sawhorses and glassed some 2x2x1/4" pieces of aluminum where the strap mounting holes would be. After reglassing the bulkhead and deck, I reassembled the boat as original then placed the straps over the beams, marked the holes and drilled and tapped right throught the fiberglass for the5/16" stainless bolts. The rig is now solid as a rock. One of these days I will dig up the pictures of that project and post them in the Tech album. As for the question of whether or not Marc's rear beam has been replaced...I think not. The second picture shows the slot, the tramp tightening slugs in the slot and the hole to access the inside beam mounting nut.
The cracks around the beams are probably just stress cracks in the gel coat from the constant flexing of a "sloppy" boat. The cracks along the sides are from tie down straps being "honked down" so tight they actually crush the hull or a lot of weight stacked on top of it. Let's face it, you've got an almost 30 year old boat that's had most of the life sailed out of it and still has a lot of fun left in it. I've done a lot of work to mine and it runs like a raped ape but most "normal" people would just go looking for a newer boat.
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Posted: Oct 06, 2011 - 12:06 PM
Two best pieces of cat advice on the internet!
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Jerome Vaughan
Hobie 16
Clinton, Mississippi
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Posted: Oct 06, 2011 - 07:15 PM
Thanks for those corrections, I was always under the impression that the rear beams on both boats attached the same way. Mine is an '84 (Aug) & there is no center bolt hole, only the straps.
I used your photo as it was the only one I could find that clearly showed the straps.
Interesting to learn that there were never any strap attachments originally on the boat, that was good McGyver you did on yours. Hopefully your knowledge helps Dutch keep his going. I tried to buy a 5.0 this spring, from up in Michigan, but it sold before I could snag it. I'm now looking for a Spark 15, (Dart 15) for the days I sail solo & it's honking. The 5.7 is a lot of work solo on a windy day.
I've put over 30 days on my 5.7 this season, we manged to get airborne surfing off waves & pitchpoled the thing once! I'm not in the camp that runs them easy because they are old. I drive the crap out of it, 2 on the wire, me braced against the traveler base, if it explodes I'll buy an other one.
A chap about 2 hours from me runs a hi tech fabrication company, building composite add ons for aircraft. I'm going out to look at some spare NAcra parts he has. The guy just bought a Nacra 36, yeah one of only 10 ever built by T Roland in his attempt to set Cat speed records. I think this one is #3, & there are only 3 of them left in the world. I'm itching to see that beast under power.
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Posted: Oct 07, 2011 - 07:17 PM
Ed, a NACRA 36?? That is just too awesome! Don't know if it's true, but I've heard that the NACRA 5.2 is a 1/2 scale model of the '36. In fact, a retrofitted '36 won the APC Logistics National Trailable Reagatta 2010 in Australia last year. Pretty good for an almost 40 year-old boat design! I think I would give my left nut to sail that thing in 30+
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Posted: Oct 07, 2011 - 09:14 PM
Here is a thread on the subject, can't verify the accuracy. Scroll down & watch the video.
http://forums.sailinganar…dex.php?showtopic=104855
When I was out in California buying som Nacra parts last year, it turned out the fellow selling them used to own a company that made battens for Nacra. He showed me a photo of him helming a 36 with T Rolland. He mentioned that Tom had built the boat in pursuit of some speed records, I never gave it much thought, as that waas decades ago, & what were the chances of ever seing one of those boats, let alone one in my backyard.
He did mention that Tom got a little scared at one point, he told him to hang on, "I think we can get another 3 knots out of her".
He also told me he wasn't doing well health wise, this was in the fall of 2010.
I'm hoping to see the boat aroubd mid month, I'll have my camera for sure.
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Posted: Oct 09, 2011 - 11:30 AM
There is a Nacra 5.7 on Ebay/and here the was wrecked in a storm. He might have a beam. Most non-F-20/F-18/F-17 older nacras have the round beams. There are a ton out there. Beams do just wear out/fatigue. FYI Murrays is having trouble with Nacra parts with Performance shifting manufacturing to Nacra Europe. The will however sell you a carbon-20.
Off topic but I need to reply to the warm blooded southerners...
Lake Michigan is back down to 54 degrees already... suck it up. This is Oct. 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKVFzXbkvnk&hd=1
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