Ok this might sound strange, but coming from a Mono hull life, but what is the trick here do you any of you like to capsize or do all of you try to avoid this? What are some tricks in NOT capsizing a HObie? If I do get one i am really getting frustrated with banks, so i just might go pic up a 18ft soon i think.. they are cheap and alot of you talk good things about them.
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1980 Reynolds 21 Catamaran #38
1988 Farrier 27 # 31
2002 Hobie Getaway
Pennsylvania, PA.
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Capsize?
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Posted: Oct 17, 2011 - 09:05 PM
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Posted: Oct 18, 2011 - 08:32 AM
Capsizing, while fun, is very tiring. I always hate the swimming parts, so whoever is so "lucky" to be my crew that day gets to right the boat while i stand in front of the beam and walk up to be on the cat immediately after righting. I am already able to dry capsize the cat while hiking. I haven't tried on the trapeze.
Depowering in time helps you not go over. Never sail with the main cleated while flying a hull or in gusty conditions.
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Stefan, Denmark.
H14,H16,P16,P18,SC17,N5.8
Team StaySail
http://www.staysail.eu
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Posted: Oct 18, 2011 - 12:24 PM
Capsizing on purpose is very usefull in learning the boat (esp how to right it)
everyone who sails a catamaran should do it on purpose if they haven't ever done it before (on accident or purpose) to get rid of any fear and learn what to do/not to do
Capsizing on accident can still be fun (esp on a very hot day) but there are risks (more so then when you do it on purpose)
one of the worst things that often happens is ... someone is on the trap wire and capsizes... by the time you realize your going over and you have to undo your harness hook. you are already past the point where you can slide down your tramp and you have to jump into your sail (to avoid the boom).
I have gone through the window on 3 sails so far... not a very expensive repair but a PITA and can stretch out the sail.
Tricks to not capsize:
know when not to sail (know your limits and your boats)
have crew on board in med-heavy air
know how to depower your cat:
upwind - usually means limit mast rotation, downhaul, out haul and sheet the main pretty tight
downwind - release your mast rotation limiter (if you have one), start with less downhaul (increase if needed), and steer as deep downwind as you can (but not so deep you risk an accidental gybe)
There are those who say sheet your traveler in to reduce your sail exposure to the wind, and it is true, but i would say it should only be used by people who are extreemly confidant in their boat/skills as your reaction time must be very fast and know exactly what to do in the event of a wind shift... -
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Posted: Oct 18, 2011 - 12:36 PM
Take it from MN3, if anyone is an authority on capsizing it's him.
Yes, everyone should be familiar with the exercise so righting the boat comes second nature. That said, I refrain from doing so recreationally as damage to the boat, or more importantly, lost cooler contents can ruin a day. -
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Posted: Oct 18, 2011 - 02:12 PM
Yep, all that talk about light beer, I have yet to see one that floats!
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Mike Brady
Sugar Land, TX
Sailing off Magnolia Beach in Lavaca Bay TX
http://358degrees.blogspot.com/
P16 "Pooh Cat"
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Posted: Oct 18, 2011 - 02:34 PM
I only purposely capsize rented boats.
The H-16 is relatively easy to right with a crew and it can be fun on a hot day. I've been out with kids that want to do nothing but capsize. It can get exhausting.
I had a Nacra 5.2 for many years that I never capsized out of fear. The only problem with never capsizing is that I never really sailed the boat to it's limits, which lowers the fun factor on fresh days. I'm pretty sure the mast was not water tight so I didn't take any chances.
I've crewed on a Hobie 20 and a Nacra 20 and have gone over on both accidentally. The skipper had the boat set up well so righting was quick and without problem. They were both spinnaker boats so we never capsized on purpose, but accidents happen.
I would say it is better to do at least one under controlled circumstances just to know what the boat feels like and how hard it is to maneuver on its side (or worse, turtled). A little confidence goes a long way when you are squeezing every ounce of performance out of you boat.
As far as preventing it, I usually depower upwind by making the sails as flat as I can using the downhaul and outhaul and moving the main traveler about 1/3 out (on the Nacra 5.2 it is even with the hiking straps/jib sheets). Downwind I try to twist the top of the sail off the wind by bring the traveler all the way in and easing the mainsheet. I don't know if this is the best way because sometimes in a gust the boom will go flying up. If anyone has any better ideas let me know.
So as far as I know: flat upwind, twist downwind, never let go of the mainsheet, and know when to stay on the beach.
Be sure to post some pics when you get your cat!
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Rob V.
Panama City, FL
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Posted: Oct 18, 2011 - 08:20 PM
10 in 10 years isn't all that bad, it just sucks 4 of em were last month :)
At least i got the nerve to sail solo in 20-25 -
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Posted: Oct 18, 2011 - 09:41 PM
I've capsized my different boats more times than I ever could count. I carry a righting bag religiously, which has allowed me to right them all solo without too much trouble.
The 5.2 and P18 were a breeze...the 5.5, not so much. I'd have to splash water into the bag to get it as full as possible to make it rightable, but it always came over, just a bit slowly.
Then last time out for whatever reason, the mast took on some water, and even with the help of another person AND the righting bag, she wouldn't come back up. We had to drift to shore.
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Rob
OKC
Pile of Nacra parts..
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Posted: Oct 19, 2011 - 07:18 AM
I have needed 2 bags for the past year or 2. But i didn't capsize often at all. I think i have foam in my mast that is wet from condensation, but my mast requires having the head cut off, and welded back on. I dont have local facilities that i trust to weld it.
My last capsize I had 2 bags out and me, still couldn't right the boat. A friend anchored up and helped get the mast up.. but not before both my bags floated away (the s-hook use must have bent and they came off the shackle). that with going through the sail was about a $400 capsize -
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Posted: Oct 19, 2011 - 07:29 AM
Nerve or lack of better judgement? Comparatively, you can steer your car with your feet but that doesn't make it a good idea either. -
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Posted: Oct 19, 2011 - 09:17 AM
This is coming from the guy who asked me to go out and sail his dart 18 in 20-25mph wind as the storm clouds were just forming.... and we were warned on the beach that it looked like a devils pitchfork on the radar.....
Edited by MN3 on Oct 19, 2011 - 09:19 AM. -
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Posted: Oct 19, 2011 - 09:25 AM
Since mastering the controls of my H18, I've often preached you don't ever have to capsize if you don't want. Just don't give the main to anyone. With that being said, I've have capsized maybe 5 times this year, It's fun!
And MN3 I'm glad I saw this post between 9:17 and 9:19
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Nacra 6.0 NA
Ogden Dunes, IN
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Posted: Oct 19, 2011 - 10:29 AM
Sometimes the capsize is inevitable, think a squall or something. or a block seizing up, your crew not being fast enough. Rounding a headland combined with a sudden gust.
ALWAYS be prepared for a capsize. One day I thought I could do without the righting line i forgot, so instead of walking the 150 meters back to our house i just went out sailing, of course I go over! Had to use the jib sheet.
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Stefan, Denmark.
H14,H16,P16,P18,SC17,N5.8
Team StaySail
http://www.staysail.eu
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Posted: Oct 19, 2011 - 12:32 PM
4 in a month, HA HA. I thought I was doing pretty good this year, I never dumped at all. Til the day we went out in 20-25, & I let my buddy drive! He managed to flip us 4 times in 3 hours, one of which was the first time my 5.7 ever pitchpoled!
I try not to dump it when solo, as I lose 15 minutes getting it back up again. With a buddy, who cares, you are back on your feet in a couple of minutes.
I don't see how sailing a beach cat in 20-25 shows lack of judgment. Maybe if those winds are the harbinger of an intense approaching squall line, or hurricane. Otherwise, 20 knots is where the fun begins. I have soloed my 5.7 in 30, (dumped it & had to right it solo). I find 30 solo is a lot of work, but 20-25 I can still have fun solo, though I can't get as much speed as I'm forced to depower, & point. I don't attempt to gybe solo in those winds. If I have a gung ho crew, 20-25 is where it's at. Fully powered, surfing off waves, & hull speeds of over 20, that's why I got a Cat. Sure you may dump it, but you have to expect that if you push things as hard as you can. I know more experienced sailors would sail through situations where my buddy & I go swimming, but as I gain more experience, I find I just push things harder. The great thing about Beach Cats is you can continue to live on the edge.
I met two 60ish Irish chaps who live a few miles down the shore from me. They have a Hobie 16, & Dart 18. We all go out when the wind is honking & see who can stay upright. Those two have sailed/raced together for 40 years, & go at it as hard as the boats will stand, great fun. I think the Dart 18 is a great high wind boat. It has 5' less mast than mine & a smaller sail plan. I don't hesitate to swap boats in 20 winds.
We did a 15 mile reach in those conditions last July, two on the wire, myself braced against the traveler casting. Pulled into a long bay to tour the cottages, then back out for a screaming run home. It wouldn't have been half as much fun had the wind been 10-15.
Almost everything I've broken has occurred in stronger winds, but Hell, it's a hobby, you have to live with some costs.
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Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
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Posted: Oct 19, 2011 - 01:53 PM
Well put.
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Rob
OKC
Pile of Nacra parts..
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Posted: Oct 19, 2011 - 03:28 PM
I'm with Edchris, 20 is where the fun begins.
I think we can all agree none of us would go out in the Chicago area right now. 35mph winds gusting to 57 from the north. That means 25 footers on the big lake.
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Nacra 6.0 NA
Ogden Dunes, IN
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Posted: Nov 05, 2011 - 08:26 PM
is this too much wind?
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1980 Reynolds 21 Catamaran #38
1988 Farrier 27 # 31
2002 Hobie Getaway
Pennsylvania, PA.
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Posted: Nov 15, 2011 - 04:57 PM
You have courage to sail in Lake Michigan in 20+ knots- there's plenty of hardware on the bottom of the lake you are sailing over. Car ferries, schooners...
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Sheet In!
Bob
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Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
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Arizona, USA
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