Hi can someone give me some advice, or point me in the direction of some articles about steering for balance when flying hulls.
Im not sure if its just one of those things you do naturally, but i keep hearing the term and i like to read about these things!
Steering for balance
-
- Rank: Lubber
- Registered: Sep 14, 2010
- Last visit: Oct 21, 2011
- Posts: 8
Posted: Oct 21, 2011 - 07:48 AM
-
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Feb 19, 2008
- Last visit: Aug 26, 2023
- Posts: 671
Posted: Oct 21, 2011 - 05:34 PM
a lot depends on the cat you have, i think it was andrew? on this site who now has a mystere but used to have a h18. he said the mystere was far easier to keep flying, presumably something to do with the hull shape and sail plan. basically the boat wants to statically balance with the weight of the rig balanced by the weight of the windward hull, however whensailing that's very slow and any mistakes will see the mast go to far and drag the boat over
so for max speed the pressure in the sail needs to be controlled finely to keep the hull just flying. this means you need two things, 1. a smooth, correctly ratioed main sheet and 2. a smooth, non-sloppy rudder system
if you have both of those AND a well balanced and designed boat the next thing you need is lots of time sailing and trying. like riding a bicycle or driving a manual car "feel/balance" can't be taught from a book
Edited by erice on Oct 21, 2011 - 05:38 PM. -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Jun 09, 2011
- Last visit: Sep 04, 2017
- Posts: 109
Posted: Oct 21, 2011 - 07:51 PM
First time out, P16, Kevin told me the fastest point of sail was with a light windward hull. Not flying, but light, skimming. The windward hull had a purpose, it helped transfer the energy from the sail to the water. Flying a hull is fun, but it is not always the fastest point of sail. Your boat will tell you the fastest way to point it. Learning to fly is a popular song for a reason. THE H18 video a couple of days ago was a good example. They made 15-20 with the hull just off the deck. The sail is cut for 90 degrees. It gets tougher as the fulcrum changes.
--
Mike Brady
Sugar Land, TX
Sailing off Magnolia Beach in Lavaca Bay TX
http://358degrees.blogspot.com/
P16 "Pooh Cat"
-- -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Jun 09, 2011
- Last visit: Sep 04, 2017
- Posts: 109
Posted: Oct 21, 2011 - 08:03 PM
I should have opened with, "I do not know what boat you sail", very important! You can feel it in the hand that holds the main sheet.
--
Mike Brady
Sugar Land, TX
Sailing off Magnolia Beach in Lavaca Bay TX
http://358degrees.blogspot.com/
P16 "Pooh Cat"
-- -
- Rank: Lubber
- Registered: Aug 17, 2011
- Last visit: Jul 31, 2012
- Posts: 68
Posted: Oct 21, 2011 - 08:10 PM
Here is a good description of steering for balance:
http://www.sailingworld.com/experts/steering-with-better-balance?page=0,0&cmpid=enews101911
I remember when I sailed a Laser II this technique was the only thing that kept me from capsizing sometimes. It took a while to train myself to do it. When a gust hit and the boat heeled, my first instinct was always to round up into the wind a little and the hydrodynamics of the boat were happy to oblige, but this would cause me to heel even more. I eventually trained myself to pull on the tiller in the gusts to force the boat under the rig.
Try the exercise that Mr Bethwaite mentions in the article. Once you get a hull up, move the tiller back and forth almost as if your were sculling. Does the hull go down (i.e., roll to windward) when you pull on the tiller and up (i.e., roll to leeward) when you push, or is it the other way around? Does the answer surprise you?
--
Daniel T.
Taipan F16 - USA 213
Clearwater, FL
-- -
- Rank: Lubber
- Registered: Sep 05, 2011
- Last visit: Aug 19, 2013
- Posts: 24
Posted: Oct 22, 2011 - 06:51 PM
This is relevant downwind or reaching. Upwind the wind dominates the hydrodynamics of the boat (particularly a cat) even at high speed. To flatten the boat steer upwind when going upwind, or downwind when going downwind or reaching. -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Feb 19, 2008
- Last visit: Aug 26, 2023
- Posts: 671
Posted: Oct 23, 2011 - 04:09 AM
ignore/delete
Edited by erice on Oct 23, 2011 - 04:18 AM. -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Feb 19, 2008
- Last visit: Aug 26, 2023
- Posts: 671
Posted: Oct 23, 2011 - 04:13 AM
a few beers under the belt now
and a rugby world cup final
and it occurs to me
it's about
the boat
not you
a tale of 2 bmw's
i have spent most of my riding life on k series bmw bikes
sitting up straight and riding them hands off
is a no no
they just don't have the "balance" for it
but for a few years i rode an old boxer r80g/s as a city courier rider
with it's light weight, large front wheel
and a certain something...
that bike had balance
i would often launch from the lights
see the next set had gone red
and then straighten up and radio back to base
or adjust gloves etc with no hands on bars
used to freak the pedestrians
but the bike was so well balanced coasting it was a breeze
but not the newer k bikes...
if your boat is well balanced
it will let you know
if it's not
no book learning will change that -
- Rank: Lubber
- Registered: Jun 12, 2011
- Last visit: Oct 23, 2011
- Posts: 47
Posted: Oct 23, 2011 - 03:55 PM
While sailing my P16 here are the things that I have learned/taught myself. I noticed that when my hull was a foot to two feet out of the water, it was fun but the boat hardly moved. For the P16 the windward hull skimming the water (like Mike Brady said) or slightly out reduces hull drag but did not spill as much wind off the top of my sail = optimum speed. When under heavy enough winds or hull flying conditions there are three things you can do to balance out your boat and keep the proper amount of hull in/out of the water, this works for cats and dinghies.
1. Ease off the main sheet. Use small eases and know that when you ease the main or traveler, the boat takes a few seconds to respond. This should be used for hard gusts that might capsize the boat. It is not a speed technique per se because it slows the boat by powering down the sail.
2. Point higher. A common technique used by dinghies is feathering. When the boat is in winds that are maxing boat speed the skipper can point the boat above close haul a couple degrees and then when the boat starts to slow down and flatten, point the boat back down to close haul and keep repeating. The boat will not go faster but will head to weather faster by essentially being able to sail above close haul in an overall beat to windward.
3. HIKE YOUR PANTS OFF! This is the first thing you should be doing when racing. Keep the boat at optimal heel and when those big gusts hit, get your butt off the rail and straighten those legs. Perfecting this requires good technique, balance and a strong pair of legs and torso. Or if you have a trapeze, put that diaper you call a harness on and hook in.
Hope this helps.
--
Alex
Prindle 16 "Shake & Bake"
Portland, Oregon
--
Users on-line
- 0 users
This list is based on users active over the last 60 minutes.