Nacra Rudder System, Pivmatics and Bungee Setup
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Posted: Apr 18, 2013 - 04:33 AM
A short piece of braided vinyl tubing slipped over the bungee before feeding through the tiller arms. You could use a short scrap piece of garden hose. Let me add that I hog ring the bungee together at a point very close to the rudders.
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Philip
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Posted: Apr 18, 2013 - 11:57 PM
Was the extra hog ring just to keep things neat oor does it have a practical purpose? Also I like the spring your rudders appear to have how much 5/16" shock cord did you use per side?
Thanks!
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Nacra 5.7
Falcon Lake Manitoba
Canada
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Posted: Apr 19, 2013 - 04:17 AM
mummp
You should take detailed pics of your set up and post in the technical album if you can. The one in the album explains it okay but the picture doesn't show much.
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Zach
Yorktown, VA
1984 Nacra 5.7
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Posted: Apr 19, 2013 - 06:28 AM
That sounds about right. Proper bungie cord is not that expensive. Better to overestimate than under. I fed through the tubes without pvc or vinyl tubing, although I can see how that would make it easier. I'm just lazy. Agree on hog rings for securing the bungies. Once I got the bungies out the tube, with the rudder up, I stretched the bungie pretty tight and double hog-ringed as close to the tube as possible. Then cut the excess and allowed the end to retract into the end of the tube, a neater look.
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Eric C
Force 5 project boat
Unnamed
Previous boat
1980 Nacra 5.2
"Double Vision"
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Posted: Apr 19, 2013 - 02:02 PM
On my Nacra 5.0 I measured that I need min 4.5ft to get them up, so get minimum 5ft. I am also going to use 3/8 diameter bungee instead 5/16. It fits well into tiller bar but need to get thinner wall plastic tubing to protect from scraping against tiller tubing.
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Adam Bartos
Nacra 5.0
SolCat 18 (sold)
Lake Zurich, IL
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Posted: Apr 19, 2013 - 02:09 PM
That is great idea, I will do that.
One other place of concern that I noticed on the rudders, is the outside edge, right below the bungee, which dig into the bottom edge of tiller arm when they are pulled all way up. Do you have anything to protect them?
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Adam Bartos
Nacra 5.0
SolCat 18 (sold)
Lake Zurich, IL
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Posted: Apr 19, 2013 - 02:43 PM
Let me clear up a few thing. The only purpose of the short piece of vinyl tubing is to protect the trailing edge of the rudder from hitting into the tiller arm when raises up. I kept a lot of tension on the bungee because I wanted the rudders to come all the way up and stop against the tiller arm end, hence the protective tubing.
Eric, the info above should clear up the tubing. As for the hog rings, you need to put a hog ring on the bungees as close as possible, under tension, to the rudder blade, in the aft most position, when the blade in in the down position. When you do this it prevents the bungee from falling to the sides of the rudder blade. I think you are talking about hog rings where the bungee comes out the "front" of the tubes, near the cross bar, and that works fine. As I said earlier, I overhand knot the bungee on the front end, pull it tight, let the knot work itself down to the pin or bolt than attaches the crossbar hardware, and finish with a square knot. This just eliminates the hog ring. If you look at the picture enlarged you can see the bungee stuffed into the end.
I'll look to see if I have some more pictures for Zach. Zach, if you click on the pictures they are pretty large and show a lot of detail.
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Philip
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Posted: Apr 19, 2013 - 11:03 PM
Philip, sorry if I confused you but that's not what I asked for, I understand the purpose and location of the plastic tubing, what I am asking is how to prevent the edge of tiller's aluminum arm digging into the back edge of the rudder, below the bungee. Perhaps you have not encounter this problem yet but on my rudders I have 1/4" notches cut by the tiller arms when rudders were all the way up. I am courious if anybody had the same problem and how did they solved that.
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Adam Bartos
Nacra 5.0
SolCat 18 (sold)
Lake Zurich, IL
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Posted: Apr 20, 2013 - 06:01 AM
HELLOOOOO!!
Read it again slowly. It acts as the protection (bushing, bumper, pad, buffer, cushion, what ever you want to call it) separating the rudder and edge of the tiller arm from ever hitting.
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Philip
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Posted: Apr 20, 2013 - 07:56 AM
Adam, I use about a 1" piece of clear tubing,(a piece of garden hose will work), that is what Nacra gives you with a new boat.
Picture your rudder in the "up" position. See where it bangs against the tiller bar? Put the piece of tubing around the bungee right there. You have to think of this when you rig the rudders, as it has to be slid down the bungee,(as far down as it will go, right against the rudder blade) before you run the bungee up inside the tiller arm & tension it.
Before I put that short piece on I also slid about 12" of that woven tubing you use to prevent chafe on lines over the bungee, placed so it covers the bungee from the hole in the rudder up to the tiller arm. Previously the bungees would wear against the sides of the rudder blade, & the bungee barely lasted a year. It also helped to use a dremel or reamer & radius the edges at the end of the tiller arm. The tube is cut "square" & that edge was a major source of wear.
If you have a 1/4" gouge into your rudder blades, you may well be through the glass & into the core. One of my blades had a good gouge, & had split the outer sheath. Drill/dremel it out a bit if you need to, then stuff the cavity with some epoxy mixed with chopped matt strands. I also added some microfibres to the mix.
I'd mail you some in an envelope, but I think fine white powder being mailed might attract attention!
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Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
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Posted: Apr 20, 2013 - 11:48 AM
UFB!!! I hang by head in shame and frustration . . .
Has anybody actually READ this thread from the beginning??
I'm curious Ed, are you providing a summary of everything I have said in this thread, or are you making an attempt to enlighten the literacy challenged?
I go back and read this whole thing and I don't know if I want to laugh or cry. Do I need to make a tutorial video??
mryella, you asked earlier . . . "Was the extra hog ring just to keep things neat or does it have a practical purpose?" It does have a purpose, it keeps the bungee in place (nearest the bungee hole on the trailing edge of the rudder) over the radius of the rudder, when in the down position, facilitating an efficient raising of the rudder (from a leverage perspective) and as previously mentioned, keeps the bungee from falling to the sides of the rudder when in the down position. If you folks are not doing this then it won't work worth a crap.
Zach, you're right! I've got a rudder here. I'm going to take some picture of it shortly and illustrate . . . .
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Philip
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Posted: Apr 20, 2013 - 01:18 PM
lol, that should probably be your sig. ;)
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Rob
OKC
Pile of Nacra parts..
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Posted: Apr 20, 2013 - 07:22 PM
Makes perfect sense thanks man.
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Nacra 5.7
Falcon Lake Manitoba
Canada
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Posted: Apr 21, 2013 - 09:46 AM
YES
Yes, & Yes.
I don't personally now the people on this forum. They might be ESL,(I know for a fact some are), they might be dyslexic, or perhaps they simply don't read/comprehend as well as others. My neighbour owns a tool & die making business. He has a CNC operator that if handed a detailed description, would butcher it. Show him a part, or give him a block of titanium & a micrometer & a copy of SolidWorks(CAD) & he can build anything.
I reiterated what you wrote, because through experience I have found that sometimes quite smart people don't understand what appear to be good directions. They ALWAYS make sense to the author, because, after all he wrote them! Often, the same information, in a slightly different wording, makes all the difference.
In my business 15 morgues are not big enough to handle the results of mistaken comprehensions, therefore we find multiple ways to convey the same information. In an earlier life, it was not good when your buddy shot YOU out of the sky due to a simple mistake, & it happened more often than the Brass would ever admit. One "comma" can make a sentence read entirely different to two separate minds, hence the plethora of lawyers.
Some folk read well, others understand what they hear, & many only what they see.
So, yeah, make a video, that will help out that weird tribe I ran across decades ago in Micronesia, & the Italians.
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Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
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Posted: Apr 21, 2013 - 11:01 AM
Man this thread really blew up. Mummp no need to post pics. Found a how to by searching on google with good pics. http://www.rclandsailing.com/licsa/LICSA98rudderuphaulproject.htm
Sorry for the short response, on my phone right now.
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Zach
Yorktown, VA
1984 Nacra 5.7
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Posted: Apr 21, 2013 - 11:27 AM
That's what I thought Ed. Glad to know that I'm not the only one.
I've decided to nip this in the bud. The original Nacra rudders subject has been beat to death for years, even on the old website, and the old mail list from past years. I'm working on a detailed technical folder, that I will share the link to when it's ready. The intent will be to direct folks to it to get as much detailed information as they need.
In the mean time, someone else will need to champion the cause for the dreaded and redundant "I'm new to beachcats, which boat should I get?" ad nauseam threads.
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Philip
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Posted: Apr 21, 2013 - 12:27 PM
...or somebody like me after car accident recovering from severe concussion and whom despite engineering education is still difficult to read and comprehend someone’s thoughts.
I thought that one of the main purposes for this forum is to learn, so I only ask for little patience for others.
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Adam Bartos
Nacra 5.0
SolCat 18 (sold)
Lake Zurich, IL
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Posted: May 13, 2013 - 06:16 PM
+1
Edited by scotts1w on May 13, 2013 - 06:23 PM.
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Mooched Beachcats in the past
Time to try ownership with Nacra 5.7
Port Clinton, Lake Erie Islands, Ohio
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Posted: May 14, 2013 - 06:35 AM
In case anyone misconstrues my post, the flavour was/is that it is perfectly OK to ask the same question a hundred times.
Anyone who does any teaching sees the same questions asked year after year. If I had a $ for every skier I see leading the turns with the upper body, I'd be retired.
In the second quote above, I should not have included the 2nd "yes".
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Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
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Posted: May 14, 2013 - 07:00 AM
Also included, should have been the use of spell check, know, not now, in the sentence "I don't personally now the people on this forum"quote=Edchris177]In case anyone misconstrues my post, the flavour was/is that it is perfectly OK to ask the same question a hundred times.
Anyone who does any teaching sees the same questions asked year after year. If I had a $ for every skier I see leading the turns with the upper body, I'd be retired.
In the second quote above, I should not have included the 2nd "yes".[/quote]
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