I have just acquired a 1991 P19 that has a spinnaker set up.
I have been reading that circa 1989 there were internal bulkheads added to the P19 in front of the main beam and it doesnt need it.
However if I want to MX the boat and run it with the spinnaker should I add a bow foil?
If I should install one where do I get a kit to do this?
Cheers
Al
1991 Prindle19 bowfoil?
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Posted: Dec 23, 2011 - 01:13 AM
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Posted: Dec 23, 2011 - 06:03 AM
No bow foil they don't work after they get submersed the act negatively.. My friend had P -19 with chute bow ripped of right in front of port cross bar I will try to find pictures to post ... -
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Posted: Dec 23, 2011 - 11:21 AM
tahoe,
See if you can get in touch with pbeagle in this forum.
He knows Prindles inside and out, literally, and can advise on the internal structure of specific year models.
I remember talk about beefing up the front crossbar beds in the P19 MX, and that was just for the jib. A spin is going to create a lot more stress.
The only Prindle I have ever seen with a bow foil used one from a NACRA... I think it may have been a 6.0, but not sure.
The NACRA guys here can say which.
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Posted: Dec 24, 2011 - 07:01 PM
no problems with submerging my bowfoil so far and i've been out in some moderately rough stuff with 450-500lb crew weight. I do see how there could be a problem with a spin pole underneath it though.
Edited by matt922 on Dec 24, 2011 - 07:02 PM. -
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Posted: Dec 27, 2011 - 03:28 PM
Sorry bow foil .. He means anti compression bar across the bows, I was talking actual bow foils to prevent pitch poling Murrays Marine used to sell them for Hobie 16 -
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Posted: Dec 29, 2011 - 04:35 PM
Matt922,
What hardware are you using to keep your hulls true up front? Is is a NACRA part?
Are you sporting a howler with your MX rig?
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Posted: Dec 30, 2011 - 12:34 PM
nacra 6.0 bowfoil with 7 pin shroud adjusters to the bridle tangs on the hulls. I've heard of some people using amsteel/spectra instead of the shroud adjusters.
mind explaining what a howler is?
My boat seems to have the added reinforcement/bulkheads forward front beam, so i believe the bowfoil is mainly to allow for the huge MX jib. The added strength is just a plus. I've heard it does help a lot with the older boats too though.
i guess bridal foil would be more correct, but i've heard them called both, ymmv.
To OP: New nacra parts for out of production boats seems to have skyrocketed lately. The n6.0NA bridal foil can be yours for the low price of $500 from murray's. Add in 3x 7 pin shroud adjusters, a new (longer)forestay and you are looking at a pocket full of money.
Edited by matt922 on Dec 30, 2011 - 12:48 PM. -
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Posted: Dec 30, 2011 - 03:20 PM
Thanks for the replies guys.
I think for now I will sail it as is with stock sails not MX.
If its a light day I will rig the kite also.
Cheers
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Posted: Jan 27, 2012 - 09:04 AM
Smaller than a spinnaker, and can also be used upwind in light air.
Here's a fuller explanation:
http://www.catsailor.com/bestof_articles/Hooter.html
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Posted: Jan 27, 2012 - 09:41 AM
Wow...
"Every macho skipper wants a spinnaker! More speed! More fun! But, most crew do not want the hassle of having to perform the perfect spinnaker set (without flogging it to death)! The flawless jibe, without an hourglass (the spinnaker all twisted)! The infallible take down, without “shrimping” in the process (dragging the spinnaker through the water under the boat)! In other words, the foredeck person on the beach cat gets yelled at enough without adding to that a huge, uncontrollable, hard-to-deal-with spinnaker that will most certainly cause more “Chinese-Fire-Drills” aboard the boat. “Let’s just sail with the jib and main – it’s fast enough this way,” the crew is most certain to say."
Here's what i think about spins -
FUN!
http://www.youtube.com/wa…&feature=player_embedded -
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Posted: Jan 27, 2012 - 10:43 AM
Yeah, about that... Sorry for the sales pitch part. Rick is just trying to sell his stuff. I only presented it for the explanation part, so igmore the cheesy hype. I do, however, have a friend with a NACRA 6.0 and a howler with which he races offshore. He loves it. He has used a spinnaker but he and his crew prefer the howler. It suits their needs and they do well with it. He teaches sailing in Europe during the summer, and says howlers are catching on there as well. I see it as another sail choice for us to enjoy.
Nice vid of the Viper!
Edited by klozhald on Jan 27, 2012 - 09:46 AM.
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Posted: Jan 27, 2012 - 10:53 AM
That sales pitch from that old hooter system is very out of date and based on the early attempts at using deck launched spinnakers from bags on the tramp. Very difficult and fraught with the problems described.
The modern snuffer systems now being used (like your video) don't have these problems (not that they don't have any problems) and work almost like magic, even single handed.
The old style hooter solution isn't a very good idea for a beachcat any more, if it ever was. I've known beachcats with hooters (generically screechers) and they have lots of problems of their own, like not furling completely, especially in high winds, very bad windage and weight aloft compared to snuffer systems.
It's just out of date technology now, cool for a moment in the '90's but not any more.
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Posted: Jan 27, 2012 - 11:36 AM
I guess I'm out of date. I kinda liked the idea of putting a hooter on my P18 some day. I'm not a racer so it would be just because.
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Posted: Jan 27, 2012 - 12:38 PM
Things change, before the snuffer systems were perfected for beachcats the furling screecher (like some big boats use) seemed like a good solution.
The problem with a big furler on a beachcat comes down to (lack of) forestay tension. To furl a big sail you need a quality furling drum and very tight forestay for the sail to wrap around. It's easy to get into a situation where the sail is out and you can't furl it, leaving you stuck with a giant sail at the worst time (when the wind comes up).
Also, nowadays beachcat spinnakers (for snuffing systems) are well developed and available, where no development is being done to design furling spinnakers, which also naturally have to be cut very flat in order to furl correctly. If they don't furl perfectly smooth they contribute even more to wind resistance when they are not being used and also are in danger of unfurling unexpectedly.
My opinion is that adding a spin snuffer to your P18 (or any beachcat) would be much better.
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Posted: Jan 27, 2012 - 02:23 PM
Part of the confusion is the terminology. I tried to find Matt922 a good explanation on the web and came up empty but for Ricks old sales blurb.
My friends hooter is poled out with a dolphin striker on the pole for support, which is old school, but the sail is furled in place when not in use. He calls it a Hooter, but it is engineered and rigged more like the current day whatever.
Foresail=Genoa=Reacher=Screecher=Hooter=Spinnaker- how to differentiate?
By size/cut/hardware/deployment/wind direction/tack placement?
Not easy on a beachcat. There is too much overlap between them. These terms are used interchangeably on this topic too often to be of much use to us. I'd be interested to hear a sailmaker chime in on this subject.
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Posted: Jan 27, 2012 - 04:26 PM
I would argue that beach cats with a couple hooters on board have some benefits as well. I try never to use the word hooter in the singular - looses all meaning to me. -
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Posted: Jan 28, 2012 - 06:59 AM
Removing a hooter and replaceing it with a soft spin. There is a reason, I find the hooter not to be as good as a spinnaker. Not getting rid of it until I get the spin figured out. I have been sailing against a guy with an almost identical boat and the soft spin is much more effective. JMHO, Ricardo.
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