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So last week I uncovered a major delam issue on one hull. I used the drill and fill method and epoxy thickened with 406. Everything firmed up nicely with the exception of from the first screw to the point of the bow and in between the 2 screws on the lower row both of which are in front of the tangs.
Any suggestions? It looks like the areas in question are fiberglass on fiberglass with no foam core. I'm stumped as to what to do next and determining if the hulls are safe to sail on with these smaller "crunchy" areas.
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Bob Miller
1983 P16 Sail # 7312
"Miller Time" A work in progress; out of the water for 16 years
Barnegat Bay NJ
Beach Cat Lesson #1 - A free cat isn't
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Delam Repair Help Needed
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Posted: Apr 21, 2012 - 09:05 AM
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Posted: Apr 21, 2012 - 10:19 AM
Not where someone would generally sit or step. I think if it were me I'd sail it.
There there is no foam is the hole going all the way through? It sounds like the majority of yours is going better than mine. I can't seem to get the injection to spread and I'm use straight un-thickened mix with no filler.
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Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
1982 Prindle 18
1986 Hobie 17
1982 Prindle 16
1980 Prindle 16(mostly)
1976 Prindle 16(mostly)
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook.
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Posted: Apr 25, 2012 - 10:24 AM
Your not supposed to thicken the epoxy for this type of delam repair. It is supposed to be runny so that it can creep and flow away from your drill holes, the runnier the better.
Id drill 2 holes in the small crunchy areas and fill with more un-thickened epoxy. Tilt the boat so the drill holes are the highest point, and then inject epoxy so it fills the voids up to the drill holes.
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ALLEY CAT 1984 RED LINE HOBIE 18 MAGNUM
Sail # 10505 or 277
San Diego, Ca
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Posted: Apr 25, 2012 - 12:11 PM
I used a slightly thickened epoxy ketchup or slightly thinner consistency.
Areas that are a sandwich glass/foam/glass filled up and are rock solid. My issue is that there are some areas towards the bow and sides that are glass on glass with no foam that are soft. I need to figure out how to fix those 2 spots.
I think I'm going to attempt the drill and fill again but set my depth to 1/4 inch or less and get in there with some dental tools and separate the layers so I can get some un thickned epoxy in there.
My backup plan is to add 2 layers of glass over the area... basically add 2-3 layers from just behind the bridal attachment to the point of the bow. I'd fill the drill holes and sand off the non skid and gel coat to get best adhesion and add in 2-3 layers of woven glass. then fair it out with 409
just an idea, I'm in over my head at this point
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Bob Miller
1983 P16 Sail # 7312
"Miller Time" A work in progress; out of the water for 16 years
Barnegat Bay NJ
Beach Cat Lesson #1 - A free cat isn't
Find more Prindles on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/173120656090532/
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Posted: Apr 25, 2012 - 12:15 PM
Ok got ya.
Yeah you need some exploratory surgery with them dental tools. Whats nice about a fiberglass boat is you can always fix it.
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ALLEY CAT 1984 RED LINE HOBIE 18 MAGNUM
Sail # 10505 or 277
San Diego, Ca
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Posted: Apr 25, 2012 - 12:49 PM
Hey, I've got a delam question:
I've got a couple of soft(ish) spots on my P-Cat I'd like to treat. I'm planning to do the drill and fill. Problem is, I have NO idea what the inside of this boat looks like. There are no inspection ports. (I'm planning to add two, just to get air flow when she's parked so the hulls dry out.) And because the delam is down in the cockpit wells where I can't put ports, even having them may not tell me what I need to know.
Has anyone ever drilled an over-sized hole in a hull so they could stick a fiberscope or borescope inside the hulls to look around? And if so, what did you do to repair the hole? (I'm trying not to drill a hole so big I need to grind away 8" of glass in order to do a structural repair.)
Better still, am I thinking about this the wrong way? Is there a less intrusive way to find out what the #^$% my hull construction is like?
Thanks,
Tom
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Tom Benedict
Island of Hawaii
P-Cat 18 / Sail# 361 / HA 7633 H / "Smilodon"
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Posted: Apr 25, 2012 - 02:23 PM
Construction is either foam sandwich or just plain fiber glass. Here are some good photos, of a Hobie 18 dissected, they should be somewhat similar to a pcat.
http://www.hobiecat.com/f…ewtopic.php?f=13&t=42316
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ALLEY CAT 1984 RED LINE HOBIE 18 MAGNUM
Sail # 10505 or 277
San Diego, Ca
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Posted: Apr 25, 2012 - 03:13 PM
It was my understanding that if there is not foam then it can't be delamination. Without the foam core it's all fiberglass and cannot be delaminated or soft. If it feels soft where there is no foam could be the glass is cracked on the inside somewhere. I am definitely not an expert here though.
I just patched my little ding and it went pretty well. only went through first layer of glass so no inside access needed.
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Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
1982 Prindle 18
1986 Hobie 17
1982 Prindle 16
1980 Prindle 16(mostly)
1976 Prindle 16(mostly)
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook.
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Posted: Apr 25, 2012 - 03:54 PM
Interesting.. when I drilled w/ the depth stop I went clean through and it looked like glass on glass. If I'm home before dark I'll get in there w/ my picks and see what I can see
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Bob Miller
1983 P16 Sail # 7312
"Miller Time" A work in progress; out of the water for 16 years
Barnegat Bay NJ
Beach Cat Lesson #1 - A free cat isn't
Find more Prindles on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/173120656090532/
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Posted: Apr 25, 2012 - 05:41 PM
Answering my own post with an assist to Dustin and Alley Cat for the pics.
I got home early enough to see and got in there with some small picks and cleaned out the bore of the hole. As it turns out there is a very fine layer of foam in the remaining crunchy spots. I'm talking the top glass thickness is "I" thick with a just as thin layer of foam. I'm going to try and set my drill depth stop to 1/8 or even hand drill a hole to get into the 4 spots (2 bow, 1 stern on each hull) and inject straight resin. apply heat and beer and wait.
Tom my learning point in all of this...when drilling holes just get through the top layer of glass and use the bit by hand to get the foam out. Be sure to check it for moisture too.
If you are going to get in there for some exploration K.I.S.S. keep it shallow sailor
Edited by bobcatnj on Apr 25, 2012 - 06:42 PM.
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Bob Miller
1983 P16 Sail # 7312
"Miller Time" A work in progress; out of the water for 16 years
Barnegat Bay NJ
Beach Cat Lesson #1 - A free cat isn't
Find more Prindles on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/173120656090532/
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Posted: Apr 25, 2012 - 05:55 PM
Thanks for the info, Bob.
If you do run into moisture, what's the plan? Drill all the holes, cover with a tarp, and let it bake out 'till dry? (This thing had been stored on the rainy side of the island, so the chances of finding dry foam in there are next to nil.)
Best of luck!
Tom
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Tom Benedict
Island of Hawaii
P-Cat 18 / Sail# 361 / HA 7633 H / "Smilodon"
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Posted: Apr 25, 2012 - 06:10 PM
drill and dry out... check the west system manual for more details... if you want to fly me out I'll help you with it.
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Bob Miller
1983 P16 Sail # 7312
"Miller Time" A work in progress; out of the water for 16 years
Barnegat Bay NJ
Beach Cat Lesson #1 - A free cat isn't
Find more Prindles on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/173120656090532/
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Posted: Apr 25, 2012 - 06:20 PM
My first soft spot repair I drilled to deep and did not notice. I injected 6 oz of resin straight through. I kinda started to wonder where all the resin was going, no way the soft spot could eat that much. Live, learn, sail.
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ALLEY CAT 1984 RED LINE HOBIE 18 MAGNUM
Sail # 10505 or 277
San Diego, Ca
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Posted: Apr 25, 2012 - 07:00 PM
Hahahaha! Bob, I would if I could! It's weird how isolated you can get out here. I've got the West System manual at home, so I'll give it a read tonight.
jmecky, thanks for the cautionary tale! Keep It Shallow Sailor indeed!
Tom
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Tom Benedict
Island of Hawaii
P-Cat 18 / Sail# 361 / HA 7633 H / "Smilodon"
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Posted: Apr 25, 2012 - 10:55 PM
I had that same problem only I had many through holes. I widened the top with a countersink bit vacuumed out the dust wiped with a little acetone, whetted with some unthickened epoxy then filled with thicken epoxy to a peanut butter consistency. Worked really well on the holes that went all the way through.
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Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
1982 Prindle 18
1986 Hobie 17
1982 Prindle 16
1980 Prindle 16(mostly)
1976 Prindle 16(mostly)
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook.
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Posted: Apr 29, 2012 - 06:24 PM
I was able to pop in some really shallow holes and force in some more straight resign to make it flow in a bit easier. Finished product it really solid but there are still a few areas in the bow that are a firm but make a crunchy sound.
Something to be worried about or go sail it?
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Bob Miller
1983 P16 Sail # 7312
"Miller Time" A work in progress; out of the water for 16 years
Barnegat Bay NJ
Beach Cat Lesson #1 - A free cat isn't
Find more Prindles on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/173120656090532/
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