I'm setting up the trapeze wires on my P-Cat, and I ran into a philosophical question:
On the stock Prindle 16, the bungee tries to pull the ring up. So you have to pull it down in order to hook into it. Once you're hooked, the bungee keeps trying to pull the ring up, so it tries to keep you hooked.
I wasn't 100% happy with the setup on the Prindle because my wife and I would trade off who was helm and who was crew, so I kept running into issues with the line stop being in the wrong place (for me, at least.) So we got a 2:1 system for our P-Cat. I like it. It's nice. I can't wait to try it on the water. But... The way I've seen these things used, it looks like the bungee tries to pull the ring DOWN.
So when you hook on on deck and get ready to hike out, it seems like a system like that would try to unhook you unless you kept a hand on the ring. It seems like every photograph of a boat with an adjustable trap setup is rigged this way. Am I seeing this right?
I ran across a discussion forum where this came up, and one of the posters said this is common practice on dinghies, where you want to avoid being caught on a trap wire when you tack. But someone else said the opposite was preferred on catamarans. I've been out of it for so long, I have no clue if this is true or if they were... ahem... posing on soap boxes.
So how do you have your trap wires set up? Are they fixed height like the P16? Or are they adjustable? And does your ring try to pull up, or does it try to pull down? How do you like it? What are the pros and cons?
I had (yet another) setback trying to get my P-Cat on the water. Trailer issues this time, not boat issues. So I have another week to think about this before I have to fish or cut bait (or SAIL!)
Thanks,
Tom
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Tom Benedict
Island of Hawaii
P-Cat 18 / Sail# 361 / HA 7633 H / "Smilodon"
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How do you rig your trapeze wires?
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Posted: May 03, 2012 - 03:14 PM
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Posted: May 03, 2012 - 03:43 PM
The bungee tries to pull the ring up on every system I have seen including my 2:1
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Greenville SC
Offering sails and other go fast parts for A-class catamarans
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Posted: May 03, 2012 - 03:48 PM
Tom,
Look here:
http://www.murrays.com/mm…Code=C-TRA&Store_Code=MS
This is commonplace on beachcats. The bungee pulls the ring into your hook.
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Sheet In!
Bob
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Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
(Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
Arizona, USA
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Posted: May 03, 2012 - 04:49 PM
Ok. That makes a lot more sense. I like that Murray's keeps the cat stuff in a separate category (no pun intended).
Thanks!
Tom
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Tom Benedict
Island of Hawaii
P-Cat 18 / Sail# 361 / HA 7633 H / "Smilodon"
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Posted: May 04, 2012 - 10:17 AM
I have not thought about it until you brought it up, but when I raced a 470 (dinghy) the bungee does pull the ring down. It was never a problem because you stayed low as you swung out over the edge, keeping your weight on the ring. I don't know why they are different.
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John Fricker
Prindle 16
Seabrook, Texas
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Posted: May 04, 2012 - 12:33 PM
I wound up ordering a bunch of other hardware that'll let me rig this Prindle style, dinghy style, the way it's rigged in the Murray's catalog, etc. There's no fleet for this boat anywhere, so no rules on how I can rig the thing. I figure I'll spend the summer playing around with a bunch of different arrangements, and see what I like best.
There are two sailing clubs near me. One races, the other doesn't. The racing would all be against monohulls, so I'm not sure I really want to go there. Most of what I'm likely to do with this boat will be long haul sailing. (There are some outstanding snorkel spots about an hour's sail from where we're putting in.) I'm not all that concerned with how fast I can get in and out on the wire. It'll be more of a matter of comfort and ease of use.
I'll post pictures of the various setups we try.
Tom
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Tom Benedict
Island of Hawaii
P-Cat 18 / Sail# 361 / HA 7633 H / "Smilodon"
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Posted: May 10, 2012 - 03:57 PM
Keep that history going brother ... the P-Cat is a great boat!
I put 2 blocks on the top of the mast (for various reasons -- one of which I can quickly haul up a canvas bag filled with foam to prevent turtling) and I put another mast tang where I can attach a ring heavy duty enough to hold the double trapeze wires a ways down from there close to the forestay tang.
I have not measured them yet but I think I may have to build my own trap wires.
Amazingly ... the boat rarely needs much more than a body hanging out a little under footstraps - and I've been in some big wind - of course I am so paranoid of flipping this boat that I keep it as stable as possible when sailing. -
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Posted: May 10, 2012 - 05:34 PM
Hey, good to see you here!
I'd measure my trap wires for you, but I've got them hooked up to the forestay tang. So they'd already be a different length. Besides, I think they're a little too long at the moment. (Better that than too short!) I haven't had a chance to play with this since my last post on this thread. My boat is off the trailer so the trailer can get some welding done on it, and there's no room behind the boat to step the mast where it's sitting in the yard. I should have the trailer back Monday or Tuesday, and I'm planning to set the boat up and go through all the rigging, including the trapeze wires.
I gotta ask, though... Foot straps? Erm... Mind taking a picture of yours? I know the P-Cat originally came with hiking straps. But like so much stuff on this boat, the straps and even the hardware they tied onto was removed years before I took ownership of it. Do-over!!
Thanks for posting!
Tom
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Tom Benedict
Island of Hawaii
P-Cat 18 / Sail# 361 / HA 7633 H / "Smilodon"
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Posted: May 10, 2012 - 06:22 PM
Footstraps are necessary on all cats if you're going to sail in heavy air. The reason the girl in Hobie vidio had so many problems was: no 3:1 on trap wires, no footstraps on side rails (to prevent weight shift in pitchpole). Pete -
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Posted: May 10, 2012 - 06:42 PM
Wait a sec. I may have misunderstood. I thought John was referring to hiking straps rather than foot straps.
Just to make sure I'm not mixing up my terms: I'm assuming a hiking strap is made from 2" wide webbing, or the equivalent, and is stretched from the aft end of the deck (or trampoline) to the forward end of the deck (or trampoline), about 2' inboard from the outer edge of the hull. The purpose is to let the skipper and crew hook their feet under the straps, park their butts over edge of the hull, and lean out as far as they can go to help reduce heeling motion.
It sounds like you're talking about something closer to what you'd find on a windsurfer, where you hook your feet through padded foot straps while you are hiked out on a wire (or hooked into a boom in the case of a wind surfer), to help keep your balance and position on the board/boat.
I've seen anti-skid on the sides of a cat, but I can't think of a catamaran I've seen that had foot straps like that. Did I read that right, or are you talking about something else?
Thanks,
Tom (who's hoping the (re)learning curve eventually tapers off)
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Tom Benedict
Island of Hawaii
P-Cat 18 / Sail# 361 / HA 7633 H / "Smilodon"
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Posted: May 10, 2012 - 07:33 PM
Foot straps are typical on spin cats, and sometimes found on cats with decent sized jibs.
They're useful for flying a hull downwind. They're always located as far back as possible.
If you trap out on a blowy day while running downwind, the second your bow dips and boat slows you'll fly forward, as the hull will be tipped down towards the water. Your back foot lives in the foot strap for those reasons.
The only time I can think of that I would have used one upwind is double trapped on the 5.2, where immense wind and short bows try to pitch it constantly. That's a pretty rare situation (and I don't recommend it.)
I think the footstrap is basically identical to a windsurfer strap...at least the two windsurfer straps I'm familiar with and the footstraps on my cat are the same.
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Rob
OKC
Pile of Nacra parts..
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Posted: May 11, 2012 - 12:38 PM
Good food for thought. I need to get this boat out on the water first, to see if a foot strap is something I'd want. I have no idea what the weight distribution is likely to be, so I don't even know where I'd wind up standing in a hard blow.
There are enough people still windsurfing around here, finding foot straps shouldn't be an issue.
Thanks!
Tom
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Tom Benedict
Island of Hawaii
P-Cat 18 / Sail# 361 / HA 7633 H / "Smilodon"
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