In regards primarily to a Prindle, and similar tiller - to - rudder setups, how much wiggle/play/shake should exist between all the screws and connections?
The connection from the hiking stick to my tiller cross bar is tight. But, then, the "adjustable tie bar end fitting" & Tiller crossbar bolt is realitively loose. There is definitely some wiggle room in all the screws connecting everything to both tiller arms.
The nuts/bolts are stuck on there, too hard to tighten and too hard to loosen, so it hasn't been a serious concern yet, and I can ignore the slight rattle when the tiller is at rest.
Is this is risky thing to have going on? should the nuts and washers be lined right up against the tiller bar components, or is looseness okay?
It does look like the previous owner had a stressful encounter with something, as a bolt or two are slightly bent, yet again, the nuts and bolts and washers are totally locked in to their position down the threads.
Maybe the simple answer is, "Tighten it up" in which case I'll have to saw the bolts off and replace them all, and likely recalibrate the angles of my rudders.
Thanks everyone
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Redondo Beach, CA
'80 Prindle 16.
(Got it for free!)
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Wiggle Room - Tiller crossbar / Arms
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Posted: Jun 06, 2012 - 07:31 PM
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Posted: Jun 06, 2012 - 08:11 PM
Not sure about Prindels but you might think about adjusting rudders in any new boat you get.. Why let some speed slip away and cause hard helm if yoou can adjust it out. Just ask Bill AKA Coastrat. He adjust things all the time. Move the keg forward.. Use it to drain his hulls.. Roll a chunkie hottie on it. Lower the main to keep the skeeters off. Or to get some shade when noodlen.. H
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Hal Liske
Livermore CA
H 16 (6+ 1.. Friends) H 3.2 N 5.2 (2) H 17 (2) H-18
Nacra 5.8 (son's) H 20 (Friends)
It's a Sickness
I Need a A Cat Please
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Posted: Jun 06, 2012 - 09:55 PM
hal...you crack me up...laughed out loud on that one, you have a bright future ahead of you young sir. who's the no #1 quality pre-owned discount provider in the wild west??? HONEST HAL!!!! you can believe him, because he's honest!
and philzy...yes! go ahead and replace all the old ssnuts/bolts/washers/etc., cost about 20-25 bucks but you will not believe how bent the old ones were! other slack comes from the loose connection between the tiller crossbar...bigger bolts/buschings. the castings can be bent(and useualy are), there's the ole "milk jug washers"-works great...then there's the pins. but no matter what you end up doing, follow the owners manual to the letter for "balancing the helm", best single thing you can do for the boat-get a feel for this and you can dial the boat in sweet...AND REMEMBER..."TELL 'EM HONEST HAL SENT YA'!!!
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bill harris
hattiesburg, mississippi
prindle 16- "BLUE RIBBON"
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Posted: Jun 06, 2012 - 10:33 PM
I have fully disassembled and rebuilt every rudder system on every boat I've owned. The play, any play, drives me crazy, especially downwind, when the pressure changes greatly with speed.
I'm about to do mine on the I17 for the second time (After sailing it about 6 times in total) and sealing everything with epoxy. Those little pin rudders can't handle any slop at all.
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Rob
OKC
Pile of Nacra parts..
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Posted: Jun 07, 2012 - 04:57 AM
I've been thinking of replacing the tiller-crossbar and hiking stick linkages with short bits of hose, clamped on. That should eliminate them as a cause of rattling / play. Another thing that would provide is adjustability (which my boat has not got).
Has anyone ever tried something like this? -
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Posted: Jun 07, 2012 - 07:29 AM
Yes, I comprehensively recommend replacing all that is troubling you with ho(s)
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Hank, Hattiesburg, Mississippi, P16 - "Sideways"
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Posted: Jun 07, 2012 - 07:41 AM
i use rigging tape all around to reduce play.
My friend on a g-cat uses bolts instead of rudder pins and has them tightened to where they add a small amount of resistance to reduce wiggle
a little play is not the end of the world. but if you are a racer.. everything helps -
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Posted: Jun 07, 2012 - 11:53 AM
philzy,
If you really want to take out the slop, start by replacing your bolts with new SS and use nylock nuts. Where the crossbar connects to each rudder, use two of these spacers and a long enough bolt:
http://www.murrays.com/mm…y_Code=C-H&Store_Code=MS
At 80 cents a piece you can't lose.
For the hiking stick to crossbar connection:
http://www.murrays.com/mm…y_Code=C-H&Store_Code=MS
If your rudders jiggle inside the castings, use one of these on each side of both rudders:
http://www.murrays.com/mm…-0053&Category_Code=C-RC
50 cents times four= :)
When you have eliminated slop from these places, you could still have issues with the pintle pins at the gudgeons or casting, the rivets where the casting receives the extension arm, the rivet on the crossbar end of the extension arm and the crossbar length adjuster. If the rivets are sloppy, replace them and be sure to use Stainless Steel or Monel rivets. Using aluminum rivets is a very short term fix that will cause you bigger problems before the end of the season. If you find wiggle that you can't stand in the other areas after you fix the above, come back here and we'll talk.
Keep things just tight enough that there is no wiggle, yet it does not bind. This will take some trial and error. Wiggly noisy rudders drive me crazy.
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Sheet In!
Bob
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Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
(Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
Arizona, USA
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Posted: Jun 19, 2012 - 06:42 PM
Thanks for all the recommendations. I replaced all the screws, washers and nuts and followed the instructions in the Prindle manual for adjusting the helm and toe-in / toe-out of the rudders... New problem...
The "adjustable tie bar end fitting" is very stuck together at the threads, after half an hour of WD40 and vice grips and I decided it's better to live with a 1" toe-out difference between the leading edges of the rudders than replace all these parts again.
As for the helm, my port rudder was perfect according to the manual (leading edge 1" behind the transom line with a straight-edge) and I adjust the starboard rudder BACK, as in, unscrewing the rudder-lock bolt, to subsequently push the rudder back to 1" in order to match the port side. Now that all of this is done, the rudder lock doesn't actually lock the bolt steady. I went sailing in the ocean and after making it past a small patch of seaweed, the rudder was knocked halfway up, hard to steer, etc.. so I yanked on the line to drop it back down.. IT STILL DOES make the locking clunk sound, however, it takes almost zero strength to unlock it... Any suggestions now?
I see my options as screwing the bolt back into the rudder a few complete turns to see if that will make it lock tighter, however it will consequentally cause my helm to be incorrect again.
Is there anything anyone with a Prindle rudder has done internally with the "pullies" inside to get it to bite down more? Maybe that outside 3" long coil spring can be replaced...
Thanks
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Redondo Beach, CA
'80 Prindle 16.
(Got it for free!)
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Posted: Jun 19, 2012 - 07:30 PM
your lockdown bolt is most likely worn...
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bill harris
hattiesburg, mississippi
prindle 16- "BLUE RIBBON"
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Posted: Jun 19, 2012 - 11:00 PM
or bent down. Take it out and make sure it is straight.
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Sheet In!
Bob
_/)_____/)_/)____/)____/)_____/)/)__________/)__
Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
(Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
Arizona, USA
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Posted: Jun 19, 2012 - 11:06 PM
One inch of toe-out is a lot. Most folks shoot for 2mm of toe-in.
Shop around for a new adjuster- just the threaded part that you can rivet onto the end of the tiller crossbar.
See if pbegle has one.
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Sheet In!
Bob
_/)_____/)_/)____/)____/)_____/)/)__________/)__
Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
(Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
Arizona, USA
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Posted: Jun 20, 2012 - 11:15 AM
Alright, alright, alright. I'll put more work into it.
That bolt was new last season, but I'll check everything out, anything could have happened. Going to be a productive weekend! (Have to use the shop vac/tape/soapy water method of finding out where my hull is leaking, too)
When people ask me why I spend so much time fixing my boat, I tell them to let me take them sailing on it, that'll get them their answer.
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Redondo Beach, CA
'80 Prindle 16.
(Got it for free!)
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