Hi all, noob here wanting to get into cat sailing. Been doing a lot of research and really like the Hobie 18 or Nacra 5.8. My friend inherited a 1982 5.8 from a relative. I just got done looking at the boat. He doesn't have the money for what's needed and is proposing that I put up the dough and we'll share ownership 50/50.
The hull has two holes in the bottom which he is self-repairing (he has some experience with fiberglass but I don't completly trust so will surely need a pro to look at and possibly fix), it is missing the jib, all the rope lines are decayed, the tramp needs to be replaced, dagger boards are missing, and trailer needs some minor work. Otherwise, we put up the mast and all else seems fine. Oh, and has a white dacron? sail that seems to be in okay shape. Based on some prelim pricing, the dagger boards, jib, and tramp could exceed the value of the hulls/mast/misc....
I would like to make him an offer to buy the boat. Does anyone have an idea of what is fair here?
Thanks in advance.
Jeremy
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Jeremy Soder
Nacra 5.8
Allen, TX
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What should I offer
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Posted: Jun 10, 2012 - 04:10 PM
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Posted: Jun 10, 2012 - 05:12 PM
Tough one. If your friend doens't know much about boats he will likely be insulted by a fair offer. If the daggerboards are missing and there is as much damage as you say it isn't worth more than $500, and thats pushing it. You will likley spend over $1000 getting it in sailing shape. Better to leave your friend to his own devices and find a better boat. That one is likely not even worth starting on. Where are you located?
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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Jun 10, 2012 - 05:12 PM
Run. Fast. And buy a cheap boat that you've sailed.
Ok ok... I think you should find some dudes that sail and go sail with them. Then you'll learn the pros and cons of different boats, and pros and cons of different prices, etc.. Then you'll better know what you're getting into.
Otherwise, at least buy a boat that you know sails well... even if it is a cheap POS... the bottom line is you need to know the boat sails, or you need knowledge and experience to get it sailing. Sourcing parts to put a boat back together WILL cost more time and money and frustration than buying a cheap boat that's ready to sail.... don't wast the sailing summer putting a boat together that you can't sail in winter. My 2 cents.
Cheers, -Rob PS-where are you located? -
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Posted: Jun 10, 2012 - 06:04 PM
Daggerbaords are about $500 plus for each so look to spend about a $1000.00 there.. that is if you can find them. There may be some used out there, but good luck I haven't seen then in a while. Jib, you're looking at $450 plus there too! Tramp - your looking at $400 as well.. Running and Standing Rigging look to spend about $300 plus for that
So now you're looking to spend up to about $2K plus.. to get this boat in the water and this does not include the hull repair and trailer work. In the end all you're going to have is a $1500 boat should you want to resell it
I'd walk!
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John Schwartz
Ventura, CA
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Posted: Jun 10, 2012 - 06:21 PM
yep, find something else. Don't buy a project for your first cat.
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Rob
OKC
Pile of Nacra parts..
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Posted: Jun 10, 2012 - 07:42 PM
As said, it's cheaper to buy a complete boat than to replace those parts.
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Greenville SC
Offering sails and other go fast parts for A-class catamarans
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Posted: Jun 10, 2012 - 11:29 PM
I agree with the idea of finding a boat and sailing on it before buying. That way you don't get any complete and utter surprises. It's breathtaking how quickly money can get dumped into a boat without any real evidence of it GOING anywhere. I over-spent getting my P-Cat on the water. Not regretting it, but sure's heck filing the experience away for future reference.
Look at it this way: This isn't the once in a lifetime kinda deal. In case your friend says you absolutely positively have to move fast or miss out on getting it, missing out won't kill ya.
Tom
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Tom Benedict
Island of Hawaii
P-Cat 18 / Sail# 361 / HA 7633 H / "Smilodon"
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Posted: Jun 13, 2012 - 10:36 AM
Hi All,
Thanks for all the quick replies. I took everyone's advice and passed. And as it turns out there was one for sale within a 3 hour drive...a Nacra 5.8NA with other enhanced mods.
I drove down and we rigged it up and sailed it, and then bought it for $2500 with trailer (good condition), life jackets, tools, extra parts, etc... It is an 1982. Mylar sail is damn near perfect, like new condition and the jib was same (dacron, and crispy). Everything seemed in order. Tags good for another year on boat and trailer. Clear title. Hope I didn't pay too much...I let my emotions get the better of me...ha ha ha.
While I'm the perfect victim because I don't know jack, I did find a helpful buying guide about what to look for. No soft spots, normal wear and tear on bottom of hulls (same with dagger boards). It is obviously sailable (is this a word??), but I think the hulls and daggers need some work to smooth out and I would like to repaint. He had done some self repairs and used some type of putty like epoxy that you apparently then sandpaper down and smooth out.
Sailed for an hour. Took on about a cup of water on the starboard hull. The seller couldn't tell me why, and God knows I surely don't know, but seems typical and common.
Cables all looked good and ropes were fair to excellent, tramp good but sags (needs tightening I assume?). All mechanical stuff seemed in very good condition. Apparently he used to race the boat offshore and invested a lot in conversions of certain systems (which he pointed out but I can't remember..."used to be 16:1, but now it is 20:1"..."NA conversion" and so on.
Now the fun begins learning how to sail...I've been dreaming of this for years...hard to believe I finally own a damn cat.
I can't stand the old looking white hulls and would love some advice about repairing the hulls/dagger/etc...and then re-painting. One of my friends Dad owns a marina supplier/fabricator/something on a nearby lake. I might also consider letting a pro do it if not too expensive.
BTW, I live in the North Dallas (Allen) area and would love some introductions to cat owners in my area so I be humbled by my total lack knowledge and skill. I plan to sail on Lake Lavon as its only minutes away, but would be happy to go to any other lake in the area. Oh, and can't wait for open-water, when I'm ready of course, LOL.
I have a feeling I will be on this site quite extensively in the coming years, so thanks for everyone's input!
Thanks,
Jeremy
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Jeremy Soder
Nacra 5.8
Allen, TX
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Posted: Jun 13, 2012 - 02:43 PM
Congratulations. Look up Timmcd, he is selling a pair of Hobie 18's in classifieds now. He is in the area and a nice guy, If he cant go sailing with you, I am sure he knows someone who will.
As far as re-painting goes, that can be a can of worms. Generally its not too advisable to paint a boat, unless you break out the big bucks for the expensive paint (Awlgrip, Irmon and such). You will reach a point that Gel-coat will be the same price if you were to have someone else do it. Was the boat painted before? If the repairs are epoxy you may have problems with gel coat.
The price sounds about right for a boat like that.
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Greenville SC
Offering sails and other go fast parts for A-class catamarans
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Posted: Jun 13, 2012 - 06:30 PM
If the boat is the original gel coat (typically what comes with a fiberglass molded boat), a gleaming like-new shine is a lot closer than you might think. There are lots of good threads on fiberglass restoration, but it boils down to this:
First, scrub the hulls clean. Barkeep's Friend is one I've used with good results, but there are others. This will take off any rust or stains that might be on your hulls.
Next, assess the surface. If it's in reasonable shape (slightly dull, but not massively chalky) you can probably skip the next step.
If the hulls are chalky, grab some #600 grit wet/dry paper and a sanding block. I know this can be done under power, but I prefer hand sanding because it's really REALLY hard to sand too far using a block and paper. Squirt water on your hulls with a squirt bottle, and sand with fore/aft strokes until the color comes back to the hulls. Do this all over.
Next step is to get a decent fiberglass compound. It helps to have a multi-speed right angle buffing tool, but I went the cheap route and got two lambswool wheels for my drill. If you go this route, use a drill with a cord. You're gonna push it hard. Most battery powered drills will give up the ghost too early. Compound your hulls using the instructions on the bottle. I used a 3M product for badly oxidized hulls on my boat with good results.
Buff the hulls up and see what your shine looks like. If it's too dull for your taste, either go back to the wet sand step and go through the steps again or pick up a finer compound and give it a second going over. These are not interchangeable steps, but depend on the state of your hulls after the first compounding. (I was happy with how the 3M compound worked on my boat, so I did neither of these.)
Get a good marine wax. Wax the boat and buff to a shine.
You'd be surprised how well this works out. It's possible to do ALL of this in a single weekend. Expect to be tired at the end. Reward yourself with a well earned brew.
And congrats on the boat! I think you came out way WAY ahead having a boat you can put in the water right now.
Speaking of which, if spending a whole weekend compounding a boat sounds like a lame idea while the wind is up, there's an alternative: Do all the work in the evenings. By the time the weekend rolls, you'll be good to go for the water.
Tom
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Tom Benedict
Island of Hawaii
P-Cat 18 / Sail# 361 / HA 7633 H / "Smilodon"
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Posted: Jun 13, 2012 - 09:28 PM
Thanks for the advice guys. Tom, what about repairing damage to the gel coat on the bottom. Doesn't look like anything severe, just normal abrasion wear from running up onto beach. The dagger boards are a bit worse, but generally only cosmetic. I would assume I can fill out holes, dimples, etc...with some type of filler or compound, then sand, seal, paint, buff, etc... Any advice on what product and/or technique to use?
Thanks.
Jeremy
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Jeremy Soder
Nacra 5.8
Allen, TX
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Posted: Jun 13, 2012 - 09:31 PM
Oh, and the hulls ARE chalky. Not sure what the hulls were originally painted with and if they were ever painted again since the boat was made. I suppose if I could make the hulls all bright and shiny I could stick with the white...certainly would be easier. I guess my first concern is repairing the damage on the bottom of the hulls first, then looking for a way to 'slick everything up." I'll take some pics of the hulls and daggers this weekend and post up for everyone's opinions.
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Jeremy Soder
Nacra 5.8
Allen, TX
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Posted: Jun 14, 2012 - 09:17 AM
Any suggestions on how to repair these dagger boards?
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Jeremy Soder
Nacra 5.8
Allen, TX
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Posted: Jun 14, 2012 - 01:27 PM
Try looking at general fiberglass repairing videos on the internet or you could buy a/some CDs with the same information. Non critical repairs in fiberglass aren't very hard if you use the proper tools and do the prep work needed. Unless your real good at getting things near perfect first time, I'ld suggest power tools as in sanders. It can take a long time to sand down a blob of resin that was just a little extra thick by hand. I use a DA sander as well as other air tools that I used back when rebuilding cars. I'm no expert but I have taken all the through the hull fittings, except the water intake for the engine, out of a 24 foot cabin cruiser and had no trouble even when hitting a lot of chop at over half throttle. Just do the research and you can fix it, no problem. -
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Posted: Jun 14, 2012 - 01:34 PM
Thanks. Watched some videos of laying new glass and gel coat. Doesn't look all that difficult. But I'm not sure what to use to re-shape the missing material on these dagger boards. I almost need to fabricate new tips, then lay glass over the seam, sand, smooth and buff. Any ideas about that?
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Jeremy Soder
Nacra 5.8
Allen, TX
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Posted: Jun 14, 2012 - 02:00 PM
Hey Jeremy,
Is that the 5.8 from Belton? Old retired guy? I looked at that a couple years ago.
Come out to Grapevine lake. Scotts Landing Marina has a grassy beach (The Swamp) that we have several cats launch from (free). We have several cats that try to do the phrf series racing with grapevinesailing.org. We are all fairly new to racing and don't take it very seriously. We'd be more than happy to help you out.
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Uwe
94 Prindle 19 - "überKat"
DFW, TX
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Posted: Jun 14, 2012 - 02:49 PM
Uwe, that sounds awesome. I recognize your boat from some pic albums I looked at...you did some repairs on the side hull where the graphic is, right? I would love to pick your brain on repairs for my boat.
Yes, Tom in Belton, or rather Harker Heights (same difference). I have plans to sail tomorrow and Sunday on Lake Lavon, but will come out there next weekend and meet you guys. I have so much to learn...it is both daunting and exciting.
I will PM you my cell, and text me yours. We'll hook up. I'm into triathlons and typically spend Saturday cycling, so I would come out Sunday.
Jeremy
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Jeremy Soder
Nacra 5.8
Allen, TX
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Posted: Jun 14, 2012 - 06:05 PM
The 5.8 was good for the price when I looked at it. You'll enjoy the boat. You can sand the marinetex down with a power sander. Look for any cracks or areas that didn't bond and fix them. That might be the water leak. Then roll some gelcoat on top, sand and buff and it will look fine.
The marinetex on the hull was more work than I wanted to do and I ended up getting a P19. Little did I know that there was a big hole under the vinyl graphics on the P19s port hull. I put the pictures of the repair on this sites technical photo album. I ended up completely rebuilding the P19 over the winter. It's basically a new boat.
Summer series races start at 6pm Saturdays beginning June 30th. flyingfishguy from this site is often out there with his nacra 5.0. I'll usually be out on the lake all day on the race afternoons. Sundays we have Mutineer 15 races so I doubt I'll take the cat out Sundays.
Look forward to meeting you
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Uwe
94 Prindle 19 - "überKat"
DFW, TX
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