This past weekend I took out my "new to me" Prindle 16 for the first time solo. The winds were moderate and I ended up going over. I remembered reading about this and the steps to get it back up so I unsheeted everything and threw the righting line over the hull. Swam around and climbed up on the hull, grabbed the righting line and leaned WAY back. I'm about 200lbs so i thought it would come on over but it didn't. I thought back and remembered something about standing on the aft end of the hull so it would swing the bows around into the wind.. I tried that and it just stood the bows straight up! something I was not expecting but I did have a laugh. I got it back on its side and tried some more before another boat came by and picked the top of the mast out of the water and it slowly rolled on over.
Here's my question.. what could I have done differently? Should I get a righting system if I will be solo'ing it frequently? and if so could anyone recommend a reliable, and inexpensive system? Hindsight is maybe I should have swam to the bow and pulled it into the wind and then tried to pull it over. Also, while I was leaning and pulling on the righting line the mast tip stayed about 1-2feet underwater. It wouldn't move an inch. Any advice or suggestiong would be greatly appreciated!!!
Thanks,
Nick
ps- I have ALOT more questions and I'll post them as I remember them
Righting a Prindle 16 Solo
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Posted: Jul 24, 2012 - 11:43 PM
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Posted: Jul 25, 2012 - 11:56 AM
Standing on the bows can help the boat turn to facing the wind, which can help lift your sails out of the water. If you solo a lot, carry a righting bag to scoop up water and add weight to you as you pull on the righting line.
Funny story- my crew and I became fast enough at righting my P16 that during a race we moved from fourth place to third due to a wind shift while righting. Usually when you capsize, everyone passes you.
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Sheet In!
Bob
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Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
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Posted: Jul 25, 2012 - 12:33 PM
Righting bag.
If you're 200lb's the extra water filled in the bag will help a lot. Attach it to the end of the righting line or if youre strong you can hold it yourself. Just dump it in the water so it fills up and use the weight on your side or over your shoulder.
Some people suggest pointing the bows towards the wind so that when the boat rights and rolls back over, it will sit in irons rather than have the momentum to continue to flip on over the other way. Also, in irons it won't try to start sailing again.
I've read in catamaran books that - if you have the ability and time - to swim the boat all the way spun around so that the wind is pushing at the topside of the trampoline, mast tip pointing into the wind, so it will help with pushing on the tramp to get the boat righted. (However, as the books state, try to keep a hand on the soon-to-be windward hull so it stays on the water instead of flipping the boat over the other direction with the momentum.
It takes practice, but sounds like you kept calm which is the best thing.
I have a P16 and once flipped it in a marina in front of all the packed dock-side restaurants and harbor patrol on a sunny summer day. After about 10 minutes of me trying to right it solo (170lbs, no bag) and every boater cruising by yelling things like "eat more hamburgers, son!" and "Wish we knew how to help" , eventually the patrol noticed I was drifting to their dock, they yelled if I needed help, floated over on a dinghy with a pole to reach the mast tip and just like your scenario, once the tip broke the surface the rest of the boat came over easily.
I've thought about keeping an extra life jacket on a 30' string, so I can tie the string to the base of my mast, swim the floatation over and under the mast tip in order to keep it level with the surface, then swim back to the hull and right the boat. Might be the simplest mast-bob ever. With hopes that it will stay on the water when the boat comes rolling over, and I can just reel it in by the string.
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Redondo Beach, CA
'80 Prindle 16.
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Posted: Jul 25, 2012 - 01:15 PM
I watched my boys test right our P16 a couple weeks ago and they are pretty skinny. Maybe 150 and 130. They were able to right it but it was very slow to come up until the mast came out of the water. I could see it coming slowly from shore but twice they stopped before it got there then finally they stayed long enough to break the surface.
A float to keep the mast on the surface a little more might be enough. You could watch for a used hobie bob somewhere. Or Try something like this
http://www.apsltd.com/c-2…optiparts-mastfloat.aspx
This might make putting up the main harder depends on how much drag it adds to the raising process.
Edited by Quarath on Jul 25, 2012 - 01:25 PM.
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Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
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Posted: Jul 25, 2012 - 01:18 PM
I think that is often the problem when people think they can't right their boat. Assuming they are using good basic technique, it takes much longer for the mast to come off the water than most realize. The sail is partially under water and at first the water has to roll off. If you haven't released the main sheets and traveler you really have a wait.
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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN
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Posted: Jul 25, 2012 - 01:29 PM
Right even with all the cleats released the water has to have time move off the sail as it comes out. We could see that they were moving it ok but it was harder for them to tell that anything was happening.
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Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
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Posted: Jul 25, 2012 - 01:37 PM
I'll have to go do a couple intentional capsizes with a friend and try the different techniques with a bag. and why are mast bobs so expensive?! they're just a ball of sealed molded plastic right? Am I missing something or is it just a high demand luxury item that people will pay a premium for? Thanks for the help
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Posted: Jul 25, 2012 - 07:42 PM
Made Hobie and Hobie is "The Brand" in name anyway. Normally I would not really recommend but it sounds like you might be so close to righting it yourself that it might be just enough to get you there. A bag or alternate righting method like a pole might actually be the better route.
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Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
1982 Prindle 18
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Posted: Jul 26, 2012 - 07:36 AM
At 200#'s, you DO NOT need a righting bag or a mast float. Contrary to most advice, I do not release the jib sheet as wind under it helps in righting. Of course you must swim the bows around. Knots must be placed in correct place on righting line (do on dry land). Righted mine 2 years ago (135 #'s). Pete -
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Posted: Jul 26, 2012 - 07:13 PM
I agree with Pete. I'm 240 pounds on a good day and have righted my Prindle 18 solo without difficulty. Doubt you need a float or righting bag (althought I would prefer the righting bag over the float). The first thing I would check, if you are having problems righting the boat, is to inspect the mast for any unsealed holes, seams, or rivets. Water in the mast will foil your attemps at righting the boat. I can attest to this from experience. Seal the areas with a waterproof marine sealent. I prefer to uncleat the main and traveler and get the mast into the wind. Once the wind gets under the sail the boat comes up pretty easily. If there is a good wind you should be able to rotate the mast into the wind by holding onto the righting line and standing on the bow or stern of the hull that is in the water. The wind should blow on the tramp and help you to roatate the boat. When the boat starts to come over on its own get between the hulls and grab the dolphin striker to prevent the boat from going over again.
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Scott
ARC 21
Prindle 18
Annapolis, Maryland
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Posted: Sep 03, 2012 - 08:23 AM
Did anybody tried to right the cat from the upper houl? I was thinking to run the righting line thru the trap ring that will effectively pull on trap wire which is attached closer towards the mast top. It seems that the leverege is much greater this way. What are your thoughts about that?.
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Adam Bartos
Nacra 5.0
SolCat 18 (sold)
Lake Zurich, IL
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Posted: Sep 03, 2012 - 01:54 PM
If I may add this. Regarding the Float "Bob" I put one on my H-18. The amount of windage and dead weight that it added to the stepping process was surprising. For me, as I self rig a majority of the time and I am strictly trailering, it is not worth it. I may eat those words when struggling to right it. We shall see. It adds a nasty bit of inertia up there when things are already just this side of sketchy.
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Posted: Sep 04, 2012 - 05:08 AM
One other tip that helps on a nacra 5.2 is to release the downhaul before righting.
But the most crucial piece of advice is still to seal the mast. -
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Posted: Sep 04, 2012 - 05:12 AM
Adam,
the leverage you get is the horizontal distance between your own center of gravity times the distance from the boats turning point. Attaching stuff farther up the mast only reduces tension in the strings between your CG and the boats. Need more leverage, get further out, eat more or carry a righting bag. -
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Posted: Sep 04, 2012 - 03:14 PM
Welcome to the club - I asked the same question after I flipped my P15 a few weeks back - http://www.thebeachcats.com/forums/viewtopic/topic/13771
End result: after looking at the options, I bought a 200lb righting bag and the cat righter uphaul from Murray's - went out and flipped the boat and had it righted in minutes.
Perhaps with experience you can do it all by technique - but for now brains over brawn is the answer!
Self recovery is the key to success
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Virginiasailor
Prindle 15
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Posted: Sep 04, 2012 - 04:41 PM
AMEN.
A recent example of this truism is to look at the P16 that is drifting 30 miles of the east coast, elsewhere in these forums. It is floating with the bows pointed straight up with the mast is lying on the surface, obviously well sealed. If the mast were not sealed, it would be pointed down. It does not need a Bob or other jury-rigged Playskool object to float.
Agreed. There is a learning curve with every cat in learning how to right it. Having the confidence and the skills takes time, first in a lake and then again in the ocean.
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Sheet In!
Bob
_/)_____/)_/)____/)____/)_____/)/)__________/)__
Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
(Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
Arizona, USA
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Posted: Sep 05, 2012 - 07:35 AM
Funny, Paul....
No comment on drain plugs!? You're leaving out the good stuff!!
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Posted: Sep 05, 2012 - 02:46 PM
why she flipped is one thing - knowing how to right it is another
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Virginiasailor
Prindle 15
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Posted: Sep 05, 2012 - 06:28 PM
check out Fastfriend on the other cat site.(h18 section) He has a very simple and effective righting pole that will work on just about any beachcat. I failed at making a link
Edited by kdj on Sep 05, 2012 - 07:41 PM.
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