I'm an inexperienced sailor and brand new to cats. What I have noticed and don't remember seeing when sailing keel boats is while going downwind with the traveler out and the main let out, the sail becomes very loose. I'm not sure exactly how to describe this but.. with the boom way out, there seems to be no tension pulling the boom down keeping the sail tight, so the boom just pivots upward allowing the sail to take a much more rounded shape.
On the other hand, when I pull the main in tight while going upwind it comes almost to center and then as I pull more line in it just pulls the boom down and makes the sail flatter? Am I configured right? I just remember sailing keel boats and the sail keeping the same shape relatively regardless of where the boom was. Is the boom designed to pivot on a vertical axis?
Boat is a Prindle 16 by the way. Any rigging tips or instructions are greatly appreciated
Nick
Deformed Main going downwind
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Posted: Jul 25, 2012 - 01:25 AM
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Posted: Jul 25, 2012 - 05:07 AM
don't try to compare a keelboat to a beach cat
buy/read rick white's "catamaran racing sailing for the 90's" -
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Posted: Jul 25, 2012 - 06:07 AM
That's because the cat doesn't have a vang. You need to play the traveler. On a cat you will not be sailing nearly as deep. Let the traveler out and play the main from there according to your tells.
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Greenville SC
Offering sails and other go fast parts for A-class catamarans
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Posted: Jul 25, 2012 - 11:41 AM
Usually we do not sail cats downwind. Going downwind means you can only go the speed of the wind. Driving your cat on a broad reach, about 45 degrees off of dead downwind, gybing back and forth will be faster to any given destination. On this broad reach you will use your traveler to take the main sheet almost to the end of your rear crossbar and sheet in. If you have a barber hauler for your jib, pull it outboard to match the main traveler so your slot opens up. In this fashion, the wind created by your speed is actually pulling you downwind faster than the wind itself is traveling. This is a complicated concept to understand.
Agreed, or other catamaran books by Phil Berman, or Kim Furniss.
Suggesting the books is not just blowing you off. There are cat sailing techniques that do not make sense to those who have sailed monohulls- like when you get a puff while sailing on a broad reach, you immediately steer downwind to ride the puff. If you try to round up, you will capsize. The cat takes too long to round upwind, and you will be knocked over like a billboard by the puff. Just one example.
Sheet In!
Bob
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Sheet In!
Bob
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Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
(Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
Arizona, USA
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Posted: Jul 25, 2012 - 12:42 PM
ok that does explain quite a bit. specifically letting the traveler out and sheeting IN. I can almost wrap my head around the 45 degree downwind theory but its still kind of a smoke and mirrors concept in my head. I'll pick up that book too as I'm learning that keel boats and cats are like apples and oranges. Thanks for the posts!
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Posted: Jul 25, 2012 - 01:37 PM
Catamaran Sailing: From Start To Finish (By Phil Berman) is a good one. I got a copy on ebay for $14 and read it in about 2 days. It basicalyl states that a catamarans SLOWEST point of sail is directly down wind - so don't do it unless you're just trying to relax and tidy things up. But gybing at an angle downwind is much quicker, fills the sails the way they are supposed to work, and you'll be learning/feeling more about how your boat sails.
I went from keelboats to my cat, this book (probably any catamaran-specific book) will explain how the fully-battened catamaran sails are also trimmed differently then monohull sails. It's a lot of very usefull information.
Kalaniwavo where do you sail?
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Redondo Beach, CA
'80 Prindle 16.
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Posted: Jul 25, 2012 - 01:48 PM
Don't worry if some of the ideas of cat sailing take a while to wrap your head around. That's true for other cat sailors as well. When my boat (a Pacific Catamaran) was first designed, people DID sail directly downwind in catamarans. Rick White mentions this in his Catamaran Racing / Sailing for the 90's book that was already mentioned. It took someone trying that trick of sailing 45 degrees off of downwind on a reach to demonstrate that even though you're covering more ground, you're covering it so much faster that you still beat boats going wing-in-wing downwind.
Similar story (also mentioned in that book): Conventional wisdom has it that a cat's most efficient atittude is to be up on one hull, with the windward hull just baaaaarely kissing the water. For upwind sailing, all the hiking and getting out on a trapeze wire is specifically to get your boat into that attitude. Downwind? Well, that's just a slower point of sail, right? Turns out the answer isn't so simple. Randy Smyth (if I remember right) decided to try hiking out on the leeward side of the boat on a downwind reach (again, 45 degrees off the wind) to raise his windward hull. It worked GREAT. He and his crew dubbed the maneuver "Wild Thing".
People still struggle with "Wild Thing", and not every racer will do it. You'll never run into the maneuver anywhere but on a catamaran or possibly a trimaran. Even other cat sailors may not have heard of it, or ever want to try it. But it's been demonstrated to work. Smoke and mirrors indeed.
I'll second what Bob said about suggesting Rick White's book. It's a treasure trove of information on cat sailing. I haven't put even half of it into practice yet.
Something else that I think was mentioned in another thread you started about sail flatness bears repeating: Some aspects of the sailing world are pretty static. Catamaran sailing isn't one of those. It's an incredibly dynamic field of development. When I started sailing catamarans, there were a handful of people who were cobbling bowsprits onto their cats so they could put up asymmetric spinnakers. Some people laughed. Other people's jaws were dropping when they saw those boats making twice windspeed on a beam reach. These days asymmetric spinnakers on racing cats is the norm. The one-design classes almost all have spinnakers.
Sails went through a revolution as well. You'll see this come up in discussions about pre-bend on masts, downhaul, and sail shape. With a mylar sail you can change the flatness of the sail with downhaul, but your mast has to be designed for this. The same trick won't work on a sail made of Dacron sailcloth. The headboard would rip out of the sail first.
Unfortunately things like this can make for all manner of confusion when reading about boat setup in a forum like this, or when looking at other people's boats at a regatta. Try to make a Dacron sail take the same shape as a modern mylar racing sail, and it just won't work. They really are different beasts. Unless you're looking at someone with the same boat using the same mast and the same sail, it's hard to make comparisons.
The good news is that unless you're into hard core competitive racing, you can take a lot of this with a grain of salt. Basic boat setup and good sailing technique will get you 95% of the way there. When people really start dropping money on a boat, it's to get those last few percent of speed out of it. For my money I'd rather spend more time out on the water learning to be a better sailor. More fun that way.
Rick White covers most of this in his book. It really is a good read.
Tom
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Tom Benedict
Island of Hawaii
P-Cat 18 / Sail# 361 / HA 7633 H / "Smilodon"
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Posted: Jul 25, 2012 - 02:00 PM
Live in Auburn, Ca about half hour north of Sacramento. So far just have been to Scotts Flat in Nevada City, Donner Lake up near Tahoe and Woodward Reservoir just outside of Stockton. I have big plans for Tahoe eventually and I've heard Clearlake is a great spot but a little far for a day trip.
Any other recommendations would be great. All the spots I've mentioned have beach areas but are very crowded on the weekends so I'm usually stuck leaving and returning to a dock/ramp which has worked out fine so far but a little nerve racking for me solo and inexperienced. Last weekend I made a pretty wild departure off the dock... as I untied the last line and jumped on the tramp the boat TOOK OFF. I was putting the rudders down, trying to steer and passing other motorboats leaving the dock. It was intense! I would like to find a family friendly beach area for the wife and baby and also that I can launch from easily and doesn't get too crowded -
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Posted: Jul 25, 2012 - 04:33 PM
Alright! I sailed woodward for two days a couple weeks ago (The weekend after 4th of July) and even on that weekend it wasn't too crowded. I have heard good things about Don Pedro which is even farther away from you. But I think Clearlake would be awesome over the summer.
Woodward has another less crowded launch ramp around the lake towards the south/east finger of the lake. The water level is at its highest I've ever seen this summer and going back and forth near the dam is fun for hours.
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Redondo Beach, CA
'80 Prindle 16.
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