New Nacra F20na, street legal version of F20 Carbon

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DamonLinkous

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Posted: Oct 01, 2012 - 02:39 PM

The Nacra F20 Carbon is an amazing beast, I've been up close with the 10 1/2 foot wide monster and my spin boat envy jumps through the roof. This is a boat that can handle the weight of your standard adult males without wilting.

However, being that I need to trailer hundreds of miles nearly every time I go sailing, dealing with a non-street-legal trailer width is an extra hassle.

Now Nacra has introduced the Nacra F2na (North American) with the same carbon hulls and boards, standard 8'6" width and slightly shorter carbon mast. All up weight around 360 pounds, at least 100 pounds lighter than my Hobie 18 with wings.

Dream Boat

Pictures from the Cathouse in Illinois
http://www.cathouse1.com/F20na.htm

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Damon Linkous
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HobieBlair1

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Posted: Oct 01, 2012 - 06:55 PM

Id either get a tilt trailer and a full bore F20c or stick with an F18, FWIF. What are you going to do with a 30+ grand carbon beast thats been neutered and dumbed down so you don't have to fuss with a tilt-y trailer? Id rather get the total bang for the buck and keep it full bore, but again, thats just me...

e
arch

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Posted: Oct 01, 2012 - 07:18 PM

i agree it's a really cool boat. one question i have is: when you're running downwind with the boards full up and the main and traveler sheeted way out to the side, how do you keep those curved dagger boards from puncturing the main?
j

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HobieBlair1

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Posted: Oct 01, 2012 - 07:36 PM

Easy: Grow a Pair!!!

But seriously, Id imagine that having those boards halfway up would majorly depower, and don't forget, going downwind to depower, you sheet the main IN not OUT. Sheeting and traveling out would only power up a F20c, its a modern Formula boat, not a H16. Also, if you were running DDW, it would be fairly tame, Id imagine.
yurdle

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Posted: Oct 01, 2012 - 08:57 PM

DDW isn't relevant to sailing anything in that realm.

I'm with Damon and that thing is the beast to have...however, word on my street is that it's hardly more than a 1-off currently. I could be wrong.

I've seen two F20C's, and they are certainly impressive. That 'NA' though seems more reasonable in several regards, though.

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HobieBlair1

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Posted: Oct 01, 2012 - 09:43 PM

Trust me, I would LOVE for the F20 scene to explode (except for the 30k entry fee!!) because Im 6'9" tall and 220lbs! Its hard to find crew small enough and strong enough for an F18, although some recent experiences at the Worlds have me thinking that my "Light is best" mentality is all wrong. Sure its great to be skinny in a floater, but when the breeze is up, 20-30 lbs can add some serious speed to evenly matched competitors.

He asked why doesn't the main get punched through with the daggerboard, them being pulled up high. My answer was that your equipment should probably never get to that point of trim, unless somethings gone very wrong. To depower downwind with boards fully out, you aint sheeting out. If its nuking and you're in survival mode to get home, you'd be fine two sailing it without the kite, as long as you kept it deep, and STILL didn't travel out the main to keep the power manageable. Closer to DDW, if not exactly.
HobieBlair1

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Posted: Oct 01, 2012 - 09:45 PM

Plus if you notice those photos? On shore, the top of the board is only a little above the boom. The easy answer then is just drop the boards till the boom clears. Viola...

Also, if being overpowered is a serious concern, you might want to pick another boat!!! Thats like buying a 427SC Shelby Cobra and then saying " I hope its not too scarryyyyyyy"

Cause it is.

Edited by HobieBlair1 on Oct 01, 2012 - 09:48 PM.
yurdle

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Posted: Oct 01, 2012 - 10:10 PM

Quote If its nuking and you're in survival mode to get home, you'd be fine two sailing it without the kite, as long as you kept it deep, and STILL didn't travel out the main to keep the power manageable. Closer to DDW, if not exactly.
l

Aye, only discrepancy is I'd call that surfing, not sailing. ;)

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DamonLinkous

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Posted: Oct 01, 2012 - 11:55 PM

HobieBlair1because Im 6'9" tall and 220lbs!

OK, HobieBlair1, you are banned. Can't have anyone taller than me on the site!

Seriously, general consensus seems to be running that right about 360 lbs is ideal weight for the F18 crew. So you still have a chance to be close to that with the right crew, but strong and small is a hard combination to find.

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Damon Linkous
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Quarath

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Posted: Oct 02, 2012 - 12:25 AM

You guys should put my fat ass on one of those babies. I'd hold down no problem and you would go like a bat out of hell. One advantage for me is I have a little more ballast to keep it down in the gusts. In fact I never even came close to tipping in my recent storm experience that had some 30 plus gusts. My friend in his 5.8 was just a bit in front of us with 2 skinny guys and they turtled. They got it up but it took them hanging on the lines for about 30 min to get it up.

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MN3

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Posted: Oct 02, 2012 - 07:57 AM

Quotei agree it's a really cool boat. one question i have is: when you're running downwind with the boards full up and the main and traveler sheeted way out to the side, how do you keep those curved dagger boards from puncturing the main?

the boards are forward of the side stays... it seems like it would be very hard to touch the main from there.
Also, Its my understanding on most formula boats, it is not often you travel out more than a few inches with the spin out (unless to overcome a gust/capsize)
Also, the boards are not fully up when sailing (even with a spin)...

PS if you look at the picture on the top left.. the boards are clearly way above the boom when fully up -

Edited by MN3 on Oct 02, 2012 - 09:43 AM.
MN3

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Posted: Oct 02, 2012 - 07:59 AM

QuoteIf its nuking and you're in survival mode to get home, you'd be fine two sailing it without the kite, as long as you kept it deep, and STILL didn't travel out the main to keep the power manageable. Closer to DDW, if not exactly.

are you suggesting in heavy air that 2up can sail this beast without traveling out?
samc99us

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Posted: Oct 02, 2012 - 08:16 AM

This boat seems silly, buy a tilt trailer. The market is too small to support the F20NA and the F20C, that's the reality.

As to sailing 2 up on the F-18, I'm 190 lbs and 5' 11". In racing form I'm down at 180 lbs. I'm not too worried about finding another 170-180lb crew. Otherwise I'll relinquish the helm to a 120 lb hottie and call it a day. Most of the bigger N20 guys can drop 10-20lbs with some effort. I only recall a handful of guys racing at over 400 lbs on that boat. You buy a F20C if you want a line honors machine, F18 if you want to become a better sailor.

-Sam

Edited by samc99us on Oct 02, 2012 - 08:18 AM.
HobieBlair1

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Posted: Oct 02, 2012 - 08:38 AM

Quote
are you suggesting in heavy air that 2up can sail this beast without traveling out?

Don't travel out downwind in heavy air. That only ADDS power to the rig by opening up the mainsail and making it fuller, making your tendency to pitchpole more likely.

Upwind, traveling out a bit in a blow is probably a good idea, as is dumping trav when rounding to head downwind too.

The Carbon 20 is a beast, should come with helmets and hockey pads, if you're not comfortable with its potential, stay in the shallow end of the pool!!
MN3

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Posted: Oct 02, 2012 - 09:33 AM

QuoteDon't travel out downwind in heavy air. That only ADDS power to the rig by opening up the mainsail and making it fuller, making your tendency to pitchpole more likely

are you saying this for the C20 or for other cats as well?

what cat do you sail?
HobieBlair1

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Posted: Oct 02, 2012 - 09:58 AM

I sail F18s, right now a 2008 Mk1.9 Infusion, had a 2002 Tiger before than and a 88 H16 too.

On a non-spin cat you would travel out to go downwind , as you have no spin. But again, if you're overpowered, travel IN, it presents less sail to the wind and depowers you downwind.
MN3

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Posted: Oct 02, 2012 - 10:05 AM

I can't say i agree with you - if i was traveled in and sheeted in (enough to take the alarming s-curve out of my main/mast), and hit with a gust.. i would be over in a second (even with max downhaul and outhaul)*

Lets assume we are talking without a spin: how do you reduce heeling and capsizing going downwind in 20-25 if you are traveled in and sheeted tight?

* i sail a mystere 5.5 - the mystere Twister is an f18 and the only thing different between these boats is the twister has daggers and i have center boards

Edited by MN3 on Oct 02, 2012 - 10:07 AM.
samc99us

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Posted: Oct 02, 2012 - 10:40 AM

Downwind without a spin you pull the boards up half way, sheet the jib to match desired direction of sail, drop traveler. Crew gets on the wire and starts playing main sheet. That pretty much applies to any boat-I've done it on the N20, F18 and Hobie 18 in over 20 gusting higher. We were averaging over 18 kts on the N20 in this configuration, catching the fleet, then hoisted the chute and proceeded to wipe out. I've maintained this configuration on the Hobie 18 for 5+ hours averaging 15 kts in 5+ ft waves and gusts over 30 kts. It is stable, safe and fast but requires skilled crew to stay on the wire and a skilled helmsman that knows how to drive in waves. A little prayer goes a long way when sending it.

Damon, where's your F20NA?

Edited by samc99us on Oct 02, 2012 - 10:41 AM.
HobieBlair1

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Posted: Oct 02, 2012 - 10:41 AM

Just sail deeper. Cats only fly a hull downwind when they are going 45 degrees or so to DDW, heating up the apparent wind and going faster than said wind. Hull comes up, go deep, hull comes down, go higher.

If you're in 20-25 knot breeze headind DW, you want your weight back to keep the bows out, not the hull down. The pressure on the sails wants to push the mast forwards, towards your bows, not over, causing a capsize.

Imagine the wind coming directly up the centerline of your boat from the rear. Center and sheet the main, how much sail is presented to the wind? 5%? 10%

Now imagine the same wind with your trav and sheet dumped, your boom is 90 degrees to your hulls and the wind. 100% sail plan in the wind. Thats a recipe for a pitchpole in short order.
MN3

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Posted: Oct 02, 2012 - 11:32 AM

Quotepull the boards up half way, sheet the jib to match desired direction of sail, drop traveler. Crew gets on the wire and starts playing main sheet. That pretty much applies to any boat-I've done it on the N20, F18 and Hobie 18 in over 20 gusting higher.

ditto - i am with Sam - but i am not a racer, so I wont argue the point

Edited by MN3 on Oct 02, 2012 - 11:33 AM.