looking for advice and a reputable shop to replace the neck and wrist gaskets in a dry suit.
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Pete Knapp
Schodack landing,NY
Goodall Viper,AHPC Viper,Nacra I20
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Dry suit repair advice wanted
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Posted: Oct 01, 2012 - 07:17 PM
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Posted: Oct 01, 2012 - 10:22 PM
I took mine to a local dive shop and he was able to knock it out in an afternoon. FWIW
Jimmy
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Posted: Oct 02, 2012 - 05:15 AM
My advice, DIY!
Google around and find a DIY repair kit.
The procedure is:
cut off the old cuffs or socks and turn the suit inside-out.
For each cuff or sock do the following:
Insert a more or less round plug into the opening in the suit ( a bottle or something, wrapped with cardboard to fit snugly)
leave about half sticking out and stretch the new fitting over the original glue area so it is covered nicely. (Note the direction of toes!)
Roll back the new part so it doubles over on itself and both parts are only just touching.
Clean up and roughen the glue faces, then apply the correct contact cement to both join faces and let dry to the touch.
Roll back the doubled over new part slowly and carefully so both glued areas attach and press with your fingers very firmly all over to get a strong bond.
Leave the plugs for a while (ten minutes or so) if you have the time, otherwise wait as long as you can (up to a day) before doing the others or use four plugs! Adhesive strength does increase with time even for contact cement.
Repeat for the other sides.
If your kit has other instructions then it will be best to adjust the above as appropriate!
There's some videos on Youtube, they are easy to find, take a look and see if you think you are up to the task.
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Posted: Oct 02, 2012 - 10:36 AM
Here is the cheapest reliable source I could find, and I just replaced all five seals on two dry suits in 2 days:
http://www.apsltd.com/c-3…t-seals-maintenance.aspx
Their site has vids on how to glue the seals.
There are also good vids on YouTube.
Most of the work is in preparation of the old suit.
Use Cotol with the Aquaseal so you don't have to wait 24+ hours to move to the next step.
There are places on the web that do this work for you, but they start at about $100 labor plus parts.
After watching the vids I decided to do it myself.
I cut a cone of styrofoam and wrapped it with a plastic grocery bag to use as a plug for the wrist and ankle. The Aquaseal does not stick to the grocery bag, so the plug is reusable.
We raced in the ocean a few days later and the suits worked perfectly.
$175 in parts (incl. glue) vs $400+ to have someone else do it.
Edited by klozhald on Oct 02, 2012 - 03:42 PM.
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Bob
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Posted: Oct 02, 2012 - 04:51 PM
thanks for the advice. I did watch some of the videos. Really like the soccer ball for the neck plug. In all of the videos it seems the original seals were glued on. On my suit the seals are sewn on through some sort of sealing tape on the inside. Not quite sure how I would go about gluing the new seals on with that tape on the inside. Ideas? APS does have some great prices.
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Pete Knapp
Schodack landing,NY
Goodall Viper,AHPC Viper,Nacra I20
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Posted: Oct 02, 2012 - 06:03 PM
We use Aquaseal for repair of wetsuits, & sealing where the shrouds/bridals go into the hulls. It adheres much better than silicone sealant. We have one wetsuit that was done 20 years ago, & it still holds.
I concur with the Cetol, without it the Aquaseal stays pretty runny for an hour or more. If you try to use it on anything other than horizontal surface, it will not just sag, it will run off.
IIRC the directions say you can mix about 1/3 by volume into the Aquaseal. That is way to much. It does not take much Cetol to stiffen the mixture. It will also colour the product, rendering it a bit yellowish/amber,(if that is important).
You need to mix it thoroughly, but it also seems to be impossible to do without the final mix having bubbles, though they don't seem to affect strength.
As per the directions, store unused material in a sealed bag, in the freezer, it warms very quickly, & becomes usable in just a few minutes when taken out.
I find the open tube will store for about 6 months, it seems to dry out by the next season. Keep the threads of the tube CLEAN, or you will never get the lid off next time.
Edited by Edchris177 on Oct 02, 2012 - 06:06 PM.
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Posted: Oct 03, 2012 - 11:39 AM
If you can completely remove all the old seals, do it. When you glue the new seals on the bare cuff, the Aquaseal will seal the sewing holes if you spread it well enough, and make sure the new latex covers the sewed area.
If you can only tear the seals off to the point that you leave a ring of the old seal (the part that is sewn), then you can glue the new seal to the old "cuff". Some shops do this anyway unless the old seal is crumbly.
I was lucky enough to be able to remove all the old seals except for one recently replaced wrist cuff, and so I had to use both techniques. For the neck I used a plastic covered cutting board underneath and I cut a large donut out of plywood to press down from the top.
Edchris177 is spot on- he obviously has a lot of experience doing this.
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Bob
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Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
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Posted: Oct 03, 2012 - 04:56 PM
I think that I would have to remove all of the stitching because of the tape they used on the back. I don't think the glue would stick to it. I took a picture of it.
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Pete Knapp
Schodack landing,NY
Goodall Viper,AHPC Viper,Nacra I20
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Posted: Oct 04, 2012 - 10:41 PM
This looks like it is on the inside of the sleeve. You should glue the new seals to the outside of the suit. Prep it with sanding and Cotol first, then add the Cotol to the Aquaseal to speed up the curing.
Edited by klozhald on Oct 05, 2012 - 11:47 AM.
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Bob
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Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
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Posted: Oct 05, 2012 - 04:12 PM
Yes that is the inside. In order to glue them to the outside I would have to leave about a half inch of the original seal. I could not glue over the fabric of the suit because where it is sewn it is bunched up.
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Pete Knapp
Schodack landing,NY
Goodall Viper,AHPC Viper,Nacra I20
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Posted: Oct 05, 2012 - 05:59 PM
Yep. Remove all the stitching and all but that 1/2" ring on the outside. When you remove the stiching, will all the old seal come off?
If not, now sand the ring of original seal to roughen it up, and prep it with Cotol, Let that dry and then glue the new seal over the old one.
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Bob
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Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
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Posted: Oct 05, 2012 - 08:16 PM
I would suggest prepping with acetone, or even rubbing alcohol. Cotol works very well, but you get very little in a bottle, & they don't give those bottles away!
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Posted: Oct 06, 2012 - 11:31 PM
In ordinary circumstances I do the same.
Here we have a drysuit with sewn seals- clearly not intended to be replaceable.
What Pknapp66 has to do is remove everything he can including the stitches, use a firm plug on the inside and glue the new seal to the outside. Acetone and alcohol are just cleaners, where as Cotol is a catalyst for Aguaseal, and will encourage a better bond around and through those hundreds of holes put in the sleeve from sewing.
Money well spent in my book.
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Bob
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Posted: Oct 07, 2012 - 07:27 AM
Just to clarify. After I pull the stitches i totally remove the rubber seal and glue the replacement to the fabric?
Aquaseal will adhere to the fabric? If so the job becomes much easier.
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Pete Knapp
Schodack landing,NY
Goodall Viper,AHPC Viper,Nacra I20
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Posted: Oct 07, 2012 - 09:26 PM
Aquaseal is VERY sticky stuff. Without seeing exactly what is going to be glued, I can't be sure. I would try a small,(1 sq cm) spot & see how it does, before I went the whole enchilada.
If you need the Aquaseal to penetrate fabric, & seep into needle holes, be very careful with mixing cotol. Adding it thickens the mixture within the time you stir it. You want it to seep into all the pores, therefore you want very little cotol.
An option might be to vigorously rub some plane AQaseal into the fabric, sort of saturating it like fibreglass matt/resin. That will seal the fabric & holes. Let that set up til at least tacky, then as stage 2 bond your seals.
For what it's worth, I disagree with Bobs theory below.
I quite agree that cotol is a catalyst, but as with any catalyst mixture, the final strength is determined by mixing precise proportions. Much like fibreglass, I would not want excess catalyst sitting in a pool, diluting the mixture. Also, if it evaporates, then it does nothing to catalyze the mixture, & adds nothing to the final bonding strength.
Personally, I have never cleaned with anything but acetone, or plain rubbing alcohol, the cotol is just to damned expensive for the tiny vial you get. The only failure I have seen is after several years some came loose from the deck, around where the shroud plates enter the hull.
Wetsuits, where it can be worked a little into the fabric are stronger than the original material.
One other item, the cotol, once opened tends to stratify, into about 1/3 liquid on the top, & 2/3 milky gel on the bottom. Just shake the bejeezus out of it, it will homogenize, & work just as well as a new bottle.
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Posted: Oct 08, 2012 - 11:04 AM
From the Cotol/Aquaseal manufacturer's web site:
Better, faster gear repair through chemistry.
Cotol-240™ does two things - it makes urethane adhesives dry faster, and it cleans fabrics and surfaces to ensure maximum bond. Use Cotol-240 with Seam Grip®, Aquaseal® and Freesole® for fast, permanent repairs.
The solvent cleans and prepares the surface, readying it for the urethane adhesive, speeding the tack time to 15 minutes and the full cure time to less than two hours. Cotol-240 is also ideal for removing tar, sap, glue, and other resins from various surfaces including glass, plastic and metal.
• Formulated for use with Seam Grip, Aquaseal and Freesole
• Speeds drying time to approximately 2 hours
• Use as a pre-repair cleaner for maximum bond
http://www.mcnett.com/Cot…re-Accelerator-P171.aspx
You need very little Cotol to prep the surface, just a simple coating, and after you do you will need even less to mix with the Aquaseal (like 10:1). The dried Cotol already on the cuff with still act as a catalyst.
The guy that taught me how to do this used to run a dive shop.
He has done hundreds of latex cuff replacements.
Not a theory.
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Bob
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Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
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Posted: Oct 10, 2012 - 10:07 AM
I first used the stuff in the late 80's, to repair wetsuits while living in the NWT. It was given to me by the folks running Arctic Divers , a commercial dive business whose location required dry suits, & lots of underwear!
The owner gave me a crash course on how to use it, including cleaning with acetone. They only used the Cotol when they wanted a fast kick of the mixture.
You are quite correct in that Cotol does a good job of cleaning, but it doesn't do any better than acetone,toluene or alcohol.
Dried up Cotol is not a catalyst any more than dried up MEKP will catalyze your West 105 resin.
I think you are mixing up the company sales info, with it being a "better" product. Sort of like my cars, "recommend" using Honda Motor Oil, or Toyota Motor oil, "for the best engine protection". Honda motor oil is simply not any better for the engine than synthetic Castrol, Quaker State or Mobil. Most manufacturers recommend their own particular sub products, after all that is what they are selling.
If I were selling product, I would certainly recommend what makes me money.
All I'm saying is that Cotol certainly "cleans fabrics and surfaces to ensure maximum bond", but so does acetone, or toluene at 1/100 the cost, you can buy a litre of either for the same cost as a tiny bottle of Cotol.
You quoted the marketing highlights of Cotol, but, go one step further...the instructions.
Cotol-240™ Directions for use with Aquaseal® Urethane Repair Adhesive, Seam Grip® Outdoor Repair Adhesive & Seam Sealer and Freesole® Urethane Repair Adhesive:
AS PRECLEANER:
1. Apply a small amount to the damaged area (spot test for colorfastness).
2. Rub with a clean cloth until dry.
3. Repeat steps 1 and 2.
4. Apply Aquaseal as directed. Note: for best adhesion, first roughen non-fabric surfaces with sandpaper.
Notice they say "rub it til dry", they do not want you laying the sealant on top of left over Cotol. What they are doing is getting rid of any old sealant, along with foreign matter detrimental to bonding.
Point 4 makes it pretty clear that what really helps the adhesion is abrading the surface.
What I find most telling is that Gerald Craft, the man in charge of customer care & advice on using the product NEVER ONCE mentions the use of Cotol for cleaning. He does use the words, acetone, toluene, & isopropyl alcohol. I actually asked McNett this very question once. Their answer,"If you do not want to use Cotol-240, the next best alternative is toluene, which can be purchased at any hardware or paint store."
Being a curious type of guy, I wondered what was actually in Cotol, so I looked up the MDS,(Material Data Safety Sheet) for the product. It is mostly, are you sitting down?
toluene, & yes, it can be purchased at any hardware or paint store, about $9 per litre.
Edited by Edchris177 on Oct 10, 2012 - 04:35 PM.
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Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
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Posted: Oct 14, 2012 - 12:28 PM
One thing I should have mentioned regarding the use of acetone as a cleaner.
Aquaseal can be used for the repair of much more than wetsuit/drysuits. The use of acetone on some materials may be detrimental. If you want to use it for the repair of tent seams, or some thin synthetic fabrics, you may find it removes dyes, or harms the fabric. Try it on a small hidden corner first.
It is OK for neoprene,(wetuit/drysuit material), & fibreglass/gelcoat.
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Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
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Posted: Oct 14, 2012 - 03:39 PM
I replaced the torn neck gasket on my old Patagonia dry top with a kit from NRS (cost about $45) and the help of several step-by-step YouTube how-to videos. I found using one of my son's smaller, slightly deflated basketballs worked well in shaping the top and setting the neck gasket. Definitely an easy DIY project.
http://www.nrsweb.com/sho…uct_list.asp?deptid=1036
