I plan to replace my trapeze wires and would like to know the distance from the hull to the handle. I assume there is a decent average used for the placement. The current ones are too short. I am doing this for 2 different cats. I will have a rigging company do this(friend).
Thank you.
Also, I plan to use the basic trapeze return kit but it looks like when it is not being used it would not keep the trap wires tight towards the tramp edge. I am speaking from the experience of not having seen the set up except in a catalog.
Trapeze wire length.
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Posted: Nov 25, 2012 - 01:37 PM
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Posted: Nov 26, 2012 - 10:13 AM
You may get a better response by mentioning what specific boats you are dealing with.
The length depends on what type of hardware you are going to use now and in the future. Some folks use s 2:1 or 3:1 trapeze setup that requires more "space" between the tip of the trap wire and the top of the hull. This may be why your current ones are "too short." There are lots of variations on this topic, so if you will tell us the boats on which you are working, we can give you typical examples.
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Posted: Nov 26, 2012 - 02:18 PM
OOps...the rest of the infoSupercat 17 and later the SC20 in process of restoration(slowly).
The type of hardware will be the basic set up from Murrays.
Not sure how to upload the stock photo from Murrays.
The original ones were cobbled up and missing. The Supercat 20 may very well be the one featured on the Mission bay youtube.
I was under the assumption that the handle would be at a specific fixed height above the hull(or resting location) on many cats. -
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Posted: Nov 26, 2012 - 02:42 PM
trapeze system I'd like to use -
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Posted: Nov 26, 2012 - 04:59 PM
This picture is from the forums, and shows the 3:1 systems and the amount of room they need. This system is nice if you spend a lot of time on the wire and need to vary to length due to your position (fore and aft) on the boat.
On the "standard" system you show, you can keep the lines tight by varying the length of the shock cord or the total length of the rope moving through the small block..
Some people disconnect the shock cord altogether when they are on the wire, but I prefer the shock cord to keep tension on the dogbone to stay in my harness hook.
FYI, the forum is split on the Can't Miss Rings. Some of us have been dunked in the water by breakage due to hidden rust in the swages.
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Posted: Nov 29, 2012 - 09:20 AM
Still doesn't answer the question of the height of the handle off the hull . Someone was trap'zing' on my cat this summer and told me that they are too high. I'd prefer using this
but need to know a average reasonable height for the handle so I can have them made to a correct length. -
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Posted: Nov 29, 2012 - 10:39 AM
You are asking for an unknown quantity. No one really measures this space to find an average.
You may not get an answer until early spring when people rig their boats again and measure it for you. I can measure the gap on my Prindle tonight.
You might try asking the group for the trapeze wire lengths on SuperCats and see how yours compare.
Or you could call Murray's/Salty Dog/Your-Favorite-Rigger and see if they know what the standard length is for your boats.
Do you know what the standard trap setup (running lines) was on a Supercat?
Tackle this (good pun) problem from a what works best on my cat approach instead of seeking an average of other boats. You have chosen two differing systems in this thread- the standard setup from Murray's and the 2 or 3:1 clamcleat based adjustable system. Do a mock up on your boat and see what works for you. It is easy to make the adjustable system (clamcleat) long enough that you cannot reach the handle. Your mock up will demonstrate this and show the fix, which is limit the rope length.
Put your expected crew in a harness and on the trapeze, adjusting the length until they are nearing parallel to the trampoline but can still easily cleat and uncleat the jib. Can they reach the handle at this point? Where would it need to be that it leaves enough room for the clamcleat setup and still allows them to grab the handle to help get their butt up onto the deck? This is the measurement you want to work from.
I know this is a complicated answer to a seemingly simple question, but "Why is there air?" is a simple question too.
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Posted: Nov 29, 2012 - 12:44 PM
Late getting in on this, but I what Bob explained above is what I saw explained by Robbie Daniel (professional catamaran sailing coach) at his clinic before the Alter Cup.
He was coaching a team on proper technique for tacking and jibing from the wire and noted that their handles were too low, making it harder to pull your butt up onto the hull.
He basically said they should raise the handle to the point where it was as high as they could reach it, giving the best leverage for pulling up.
Check out Robbie's coaching rig, probably the only catamaran sailor I've met that could justify owning a F350 truck.
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Posted: Nov 29, 2012 - 02:10 PM
Hey, glad to see this thread. I need to replace the trap wires on my P-Cat (good luck finding THOSE pre-cut at Murray's!), and I was hemming and hawing about the length to make them.
I'm using a 2:1, more for extended comfort on the wire than trying to achieve maximum sailing performance. Judging from the discussion, from the photos Damon posted, and my own memories of lake sailing in Texas, I think I've got a good idea of where I want the handles now.
Tom
P.S. Damon, Robbie's coaching rig just brought tears to my eyes. That's freakin' beautiful. Sexier than a Ferrari.
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Posted: May 28, 2013 - 01:24 PM
Agreed.
Robbie wins!
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Posted: May 28, 2013 - 05:11 PM
One item never got mentioned. Let's be honest, most of us are recreational sailors, many of us are driving 30 year old boats, with original sails.
I set my handles with one thought in mind, can I reach them from in the water?
The quickest way to get back on the boat after falling off, or flipping, is to put both hands on the hull,(or one on hull, one holding the shroud)& "bounce" up once or twice. As you bounce, use one hand to push your body upwards,(assisted by the life jacket), the other hand reaches up & grabs the trap handle. Once that occurs, it is very easy to pull yourself up a bit & grab the handle with both hands. Now you can pull yourself up enough, it doesn't have to be very far, to swing one leg up onto the hull and hook it inboard of the shroud.
Now using the strong leg muscles to assist your arms, you do a modified "plank", and get your butt up onjto the hull. A 1/4 turn roll & you are on board again. I can do this under 2 seconds, & for that reason I have the trap handle where I can get it from in the water.
You might be surprised how high you can reach by grabbing a shroud, & "bouncing".
Good sailors may never end up in the water, but I'm not one of those!
Edited by Edchris177 on May 28, 2013 - 05:13 PM.
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