I'm hoping you can help me think through a few questions about cat sailing in SF bay with my 7 y/o daughter.
I've had the itch to get back into sailing for a while now (I grew up sailing Lasers) and can't stand it any longer. I would be sailing out of Redwood City mostly and was interested in a few boats like an Open 5.7 or maybe a VX One. . . but then I found this forum and started to think about a cat. I've only been on an H16 once in Mission bay, but didn't have any problem flying the hull and not going over (not that that means much )
My two questions:
1. For those of you with kids, would you recommend getting a boat for just me and my daughter (wife not interested), or getter a larger boat to take her friends and one parent out on - which would obviously present problems with righting when it was just the two of us. I realize that all kids are different but I'm already starting to see that she equates fun with friends and not necessarily with dad. On the other hand, her friends may not be up for such a wet and cold adventure (she definitely is though). Anyone have any wisdom on that one?
2. If I were to go with something like a Nacra 500, how much of the SF bay would be available in the summer? Of course we would have wetsuits, radios, etc. . but I'm not going to put my daughter at any significant risk (at her age). Would we be relegated to staying inside Redwood City Harbor on a typical summer day, or could we launch at Coyote Point, or Alameda, or Richardson Bay? In other words, how limiting is a 16" cat in SF summer conditions?
i think it would be really fun to head up to Tomales Bay or Tahoe a few times a year, but need a boat that can handle local conditions too.
Sorry for the long-winded questions and thanks in advance for any replies.
-Chris
couple of Q's about sailing on SF bay with kids
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Posted: Mar 06, 2013 - 10:21 PM
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Posted: Mar 06, 2013 - 11:56 PM
You sound like the perfect customer for an 18 foot beach cat= Hobie, Prindle or NACRA.
You and the daughter and friend(s) would be a good crew, and the waterline and flotation of an 18 will make sailing the bay much more pleasurable.
Two adults can right an 18.
With a righting bag and practice, you and your daughter might be able to right it- If she is about 60 pounds and the righting bag holds another 50 pounds (six gallons) or more.
Grab the opportunity to share this with your daughter. My daughter was 16 before she realized how cool sailing a cat was, and soon after had her friends asking about going.
Two adults can make an 18 go fast, and that's gravy for you.
In CA I sail the ocean from San Diego up to Santa Barbara.
Somebody here in the forum can speak to your Bay area geography questions.
Edited by klozhald on Mar 06, 2013 - 11:58 PM.
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Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
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Arizona, USA
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Posted: Mar 07, 2013 - 08:03 PM
I have been sailing with my daughter (8) and wife for 2 seasons now on my H17, and here a few points of wisdom:
1. Kids of this age can get very easily discouraged from sailing, if they get cold, frighten, or just bored. If this happens, even once -- then you are done.
2. You will need not only a full wet suit for your daughter, but also a neoprene socks or booties, splash pans and splash jacket. I use to live in SF bay area and what I remember is cold water year around...
3. Bring some gummy bears and keep them handy.
4. Keep in mind -- first few times you rig your boat, it may take you up to 2h from trailer to water. You will need to entertain and babysit your kid(s) and this time. This may be a challenge, as you will need to pay attention to your new to you boat. Stepping mast also requires 2 people, unless you have special stepping setup. It also have some safety issues, like accidentally dropping the mast, trust me it has happen.
5. First few time you go -- make sure to avoid medium to heavy air. Best, if you take an adult with you and go only if wind is no more than 3-7 knots.
6. If you want go just with your daughter, then stay away from 18-footers. Get a Hobie 16, 17, Getaway, Wave, or Nacra 500. Boom-less rigs are better if you go with small kids (Getaway, Wave, or Nacra 500)
7. I like cats with wings, because it creates a safe zone around the trampoline. I is much more conformable for adults too, to sit, or rest your back. Cats with wings are Hobie 17, 18, Getaway, Wave (backrest)
Hope this helps
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Jack B
Hobie 17
BC, Canada
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Posted: Mar 07, 2013 - 08:08 PM
I will second the 18' cat. 16' would be tight if she ever brought a friend, a P16 might work. I would look for one known to be a dry boat given the typical temps in the bay. I have launched from the beach in Alameda and getting the boat to the water can be tricky, depending on where you launch. I love my Hobie 18 with wings, but they are a little heavy. Nice for a 3rd person, or rough conditions.
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Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
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Posted: Mar 07, 2013 - 10:05 PM
Thanks for the replies - that is exactly the kind of feedback I was hoping for. It makes me realize that I could put a lot of energy and money into a boat and end up not having a sailing partner (If I don't follow Jack's advice)
Also interesting about the split between 16 and 18 foot recommendations. As much as I would like a larger platform, I don't think I want to take my daughter out on a boat the I cannot right by myself - not with the cold water. Is there a larger boat that I could right myself - Getaway maybe?
Any other opinions on the strong winds and rough water in SF Bay? I'm still not sure If I would end up limited to the few sheltered places in the bay or not.
Chris -
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Posted: Mar 07, 2013 - 10:23 PM
a prindle 16 is a great heavy air/seas boat...built as a family cat, most simple design, extra sturdy. you can raise the mast solo with a trick or two. solo righting is doable also. not sure how many are in your neck of the woods but i have had no problems finding new/used parts. not to mention nearly 40 lbs lighter than a hobie 16 and not nearly as twitchy in big air. no matter what you get cold water will be the problem so i would study up on that first. it's nice to have a good crew handy! good luck!
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bill harris
hattiesburg, mississippi
prindle 16- "BLUE RIBBON"
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Posted: Mar 08, 2013 - 06:47 AM
most 18's are in the 400lbs range, you could solo right one, with a righting bag
A getaway may be a great match for you.
boardless
boomless
very very hardy construction
should be able to self right
wings
family friendly
simple enough to rig/sail, enough performance to enjoy it (for a while) :) -
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Posted: Mar 08, 2013 - 08:39 AM
Here is a thread about righting a Getaway:
http://www.hobiecat.com/f…ewtopic.php?f=23&t=42693
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Jack B
Hobie 17
BC, Canada
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Posted: Mar 08, 2013 - 11:42 AM
I would also suggest the Getaway with wings, just under 17 feet but is bouyant to 1000 pounds. with wings and 2 tramps You could easily have 2 dads and 2 children aboard, with plenty of room, with no problems. Boomless rig with a roller furling jib and Hobie Bob at the top of the mast. adds to a little more saftey. -
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Posted: Mar 08, 2013 - 03:41 PM
{Cats with wings are Hobie 17, 18, Getaway, Wave (backrest)}...Hey Jack B,
don' forget the 21SE or the 21SC as they both have wings...
My kids (17 & 22) grew up sailing our 21SE.
My cat is so wide and stable that I haven't flipped it in 15 years....
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Bill 404 21SE
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Posted: Mar 08, 2013 - 07:54 PM
H21 is an awesome boat. I may get one one day to complement my H17. Not sure, I would recommend it for a new sailor to take his 8-year kid with on SF bay... Could be a bit too much for stater cat.
How about a Wave. Sure, the Wave is not a performance boat, but easy to handle, easy to right, and quick to rig. It could be a perfect for one adult with a kid or 2.
What you'll think?
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Jack B
Hobie 17
BC, Canada
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Posted: Mar 12, 2013 - 05:03 PM
I bought a Prindle 16 as a family boat for my wife and 7 and 9 yr old. 4 can be a bit crowded on it, but the kids like to ride up on the bows or hang off the trap handles on both sides. I also have a great time sailing solo when the water is too cold for the family (that's under 80 F for them). SF Bay seems like it would windy, wet, and cold, which will be very hard on a kid, and bringing a friend will be difficult since they likely won't have the gear for cold water. Jackb hit all the important points that might derail your plans to sail with your daughter. Sorry, I don't have a good solution other than move to a warmer location.
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John Fricker
Prindle 16
Seabrook, Texas
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Posted: Mar 13, 2013 - 09:55 AM
I have been a Hobie sailor for 30 Y. Sailed a H 16 only untill the last 5 Y.. My kids(2 boys 1 Girl) were sailing the 16 solo at 12.. BUT we sailed lakes.. There are soooo many good sailing lake within a hr or two from SF you would never be able to sail them all the first year. There are Hobie fleets in Sacramento and Modesto that have fun sails once a month. Yes but you could not store it mast up.. Have to step the mast each time but storage is cheaper for that lot type of storage.. Store it at my place in Livermore for free !! Sail the bay when the kids are a bit older and much more experienced and better equiped. Why spend the cash on wet suits and radios when you can hit a lake in an hr. or two, play in a warmer lake with friends to have a beer with and help ya out if flip or have other problems.. Teach you and help you get started.. My choice for you is a H16 or perhaps a H17. More parts available for a 16.. Big race fleets if you want to race.. Like to single?? Get a water bag or other righting system to get it over alone.. Or get some help from a friend. Might think about a H17 The 17 is fun and good single boat. (I have one for sail and several H16s.. The 17 has wings) Want to try one?? Lets hook up this spring and you can join me at Woodward out by Oakdale.. 1.5 hrs from Livermore... Warm and great "Consistant" wind and NO WAVES or TIDES, NO FEAR for the kids.. Motels in town if you dont like to camp. Get on line and check out some of the Pixs of SF Bay sailing in a cat. Still intimadates me. I sail for fun !! and a tan.. Cheers PM me for contact info if you like. Hal
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Hal Liske
Livermore CA
H 16 (6+ 1.. Friends) H 3.2 N 5.2 (2) H 17 (2) H-18
Nacra 5.8 (son's) H 20 (Friends)
It's a Sickness
I Need a A Cat Please
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Posted: Mar 13, 2013 - 07:12 PM
I agree with Hal L. completely. H16 gives you best performance per buck. H17 is great to single or with 2 light people on board. It is a bit more weight sensitive than H16 but a newer design with more controls, and of course -- wings Just see what is available locally on CL, etc. If I were you, I would be open to P16, H16, H17, Getaway, or a Wave of you prefer simplicity over speed.
There is a lot of posts on what to watch for in a used cat. More research you do, better chance you will be happy this your new cat. Hobie forum is also pretty good for that too.
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Jack B
Hobie 17
BC, Canada
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Posted: Mar 14, 2013 - 09:48 AM
Jack.. Thanks for the agree comment ... Last summer was my first time on a H17. Got a cool yellow one in good shape. Shinned up the hulls and some new sheets and awayyy i went. Single all the time. Learned to step the mast alone as well.. Did have a problem tacking. Messed up 50% of them at least.. Love the wings.. but miss the jib to help her tack.. Thinking about getting a jib kit to help.. Your thoughts?? What is your advice about tacking problems?? I am thinking it has something to do with the centerboard shape or hull shape aft.... Hal
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Hal Liske
Livermore CA
H 16 (6+ 1.. Friends) H 3.2 N 5.2 (2) H 17 (2) H-18
Nacra 5.8 (son's) H 20 (Friends)
It's a Sickness
I Need a A Cat Please
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Posted: Mar 14, 2013 - 08:29 PM
Good news -- tacking a una-rig is just another skill to acquire. This is a excellent writeup on H17 tuning, including tacking.
http://www.hcana.hobiecla…weet%2017%20Part%201.pdf
http://www.hcana.hobiecla…weet%2017%20Part%202.pdf
You can get a jib-kit far H17, but it will cost you as much as the boat itself.
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Jack B
Hobie 17
BC, Canada
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