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DamonLinkous

Rank: Administrator

Registered: Jul 19, 2001

Last visit: Oct 31, 2024

Posts: 3445
Posted: Apr 08, 2013 - 04:07 PM

OK nerds, I'm wondering if it would be possible to build a Decision Tree, maybe in flow chart format or maybe as a responsive form that would lead to an informed choice as to which beachcat best fits a particular potential owners needs.

To do this we would need a list of beachcats, and then assign numerical values to a list of features that are important in choosing a ride for each of them. We wouldn't need to rate every single beachcat ever made, it probably wouldn't be hard to narrow it down to the 20 or 30 most available. No need to end up with a recommendation of cats that can't be found, although these more obscure cats could be attached as secondary suggestions to the more available ones.

First lets make a list of beachcats that are commonly available, new and used in the USA. If we can make that list then we can start arguing over their attributes.

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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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smfinley

Rank: Mate

Registered: Apr 24, 2005

Last visit: Apr 18, 2023

Posts: 709
Posted: Apr 08, 2013 - 04:37 PM

Sounds like a good idea. Full ratings might be tough. What about getting to a category instead of a specific cat? Like "look for the best condition P18, P18-2 or H18 you can find". These are usually for first time buyers, so I question the accuracy of their inputs to really identify meaningful benefits between the boats.

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Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
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DamonLinkous

Rank: Administrator

Registered: Jul 19, 2001

Last visit: Oct 31, 2024

Posts: 3445
Posted: Apr 08, 2013 - 05:01 PM

smfinleySounds like a good idea. Full ratings might be tough. What about getting to a category instead of a specific cat? Like "look for the best condition P18, P18-2 or H18 you can find". These are usually for first time buyers, so I question the accuracy of their inputs to really identify meaningful benefits between the boats.

Yes, I didn't mean to say it would get down to a particular model beachcat in most cases, in almost every case there would be more than one cat. Some will have stronger ratings in one thing or another.

Questions about beachcats experience, local sailing conditions, crew amount/weight, and especially budget would need to be in there. What else?

I think here we often make the mistake of automatically talking about 30 year old boats for $500-$1,000 when lots of people buy toys in the $20,000+ category. Just cause someone is new to beachcat sailing doesn't mean they don't want something nice.

--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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windadict

Rank: Mate

Registered: Aug 27, 2011

Last visit: Jun 15, 2015

Posts: 153
Posted: Apr 08, 2013 - 07:25 PM

That is a good idea. Here are few most common criteria to start with:

Sailing solo or with crew?
Total crew weight?
Skills (learner, moderate, experienced)
Sailing Location (lake, river, ocean)

Add to it or change as you think is appropriate...

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Adam Bartos
Nacra 5.0
SolCat 18 (sold)
Lake Zurich, IL
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spoulton

Rank: Mate

Registered: Dec 18, 2009

Last visit: Oct 10, 2019

Posts: 117
Posted: Apr 08, 2013 - 08:03 PM

Would add:

Strengh of crew
Risk tolerance

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Scott
ARC 21
Prindle 18
Annapolis, Maryland
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jackb

Rank: Mate

Registered: Dec 01, 2011

Last visit: Nov 02, 2016

Posts: 165
Posted: Apr 08, 2013 - 08:49 PM

[DamonLinkous ]I'm wondering if it would be possible to build a Decision Tree, maybe in flow chart format or maybe as a responsive form that would lead to an informed choice as to which beachcat best fits a particular potential owners needs.[/DamonLinkous ]

This is funny, I've had exact the same idea this morning.

So it happened, I am one of the NERDS who does this kind of stuff for living. The fastest way is to implement a prototype on an Excel spreadsheet. There could be 3 easy method we could try:

1. Decision tree
2. K-nearest neighbor (KNN)
3. Pattern matching

In all cases, we will need a list of criteria, which can be quantified, say 0-100 range.

QuoteStrengh of crew
Risk tolerance

QuoteSailing solo or with crew?
Total crew weight?
Skills (learner, moderate, experienced)
Sailing Location (lake, river, ocean)

Budget
Boat complexity
Tolerance to pain
Need for speed
Rigging time requirement

Then, we need a list of boats and rank them accordingly to the established criteria.

A new user would have to rank him/her-self accordingly the same set same criteria.

The easiest method would be to calculate a match with every criteria for every boat in database. The combine score would be a multiplication of all individual scores. The boat with the highest score wins. This would be a very simple pattern matching method.

So, lets work on a good list of criteria!

--
Jack B
Hobie 17
BC, Canada
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coastrat

Rank: Chief

Registered: Jul 16, 2009

Last visit: Oct 28, 2014

Posts: 1271
Posted: Apr 08, 2013 - 09:37 PM

...trailor sailor or mast up
my main criteria is rigging/breakdown time.

somewhere in there is the "best cat available" option!

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bill harris
hattiesburg, mississippi
prindle 16- "BLUE RIBBON"
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RicardOben

Rank: Mate

Registered: Jan 24, 2012

Last visit: Feb 26, 2016

Posts: 173
Posted: Apr 09, 2013 - 06:31 AM

Water depth, boards or no boards, would be another good criteria. You guys have toooooooo much time on your hands. LOL, Ricardo.

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Lake Perry KS
H-18
N-5.5 UNI +spin
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robpatt

Rank: Mate

Registered: Aug 06, 2010

Last visit: Jun 26, 2024

Posts: 281
Posted: Apr 09, 2013 - 09:00 AM

Style? Classic, Modern or Don't Care

Maybe N/A for newbee... but I'm struggling over this w/my Hobie 18. (I'd call it Classic)
Fabulous boat, tweaked, spin, nice, etc, well setup.

But jonesing for "Modern" like an F-17.

Then again, will I really be "thrilled" with the F-17 over the 18... or just enjoy a boat that was designed for a spinnaker? Prob the latter... think I'm keeping the Hobie.
Backasswards

Rank: Mate

Registered: Jun 16, 2010

Last visit: Oct 03, 2013

Posts: 141
Posted: Apr 09, 2013 - 09:32 AM

How many bikinis do you want to lovingly lead to your trampoline, on the wire, hoist the main, fetch a cool one, rub the skipper's back, apply sun tan lotion, organize the cooler contents, right the boat?

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Hank, Hattiesburg, Mississippi, P16 - "Sideways"
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captedteach

Rank: Mate

Registered: Jul 16, 2002

Last visit: Aug 18, 2020

Posts: 126
Posted: May 17, 2013 - 11:33 AM

I have a list of questions I put together for bigger boats but several of them will cross over - These are questions you ask yourself as you boat shop and include stuff like 'What is the towing capacity of my current vehicle?' 'What boats are popular in your area?' The vehicle may not be so important for beachcats unless you just have a moped but the ones like How far is it to your sailing area and where will be boat be stored do have a place I'll find the list and post it here

--
Lee - On the BIG Lake in MS

Harstil Kaulua 31 - Current Project Boat
Cal 25 - What ? Time to freshen it up again??
MC Scow 16 (1 in the water and 1 parts/project) SOLD
Capri 22 - What do you mean you wont deliver it??
Chrysler Pirateer 13 - new addition to the fleet
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captedteach

Rank: Mate

Registered: Jul 16, 2002

Last visit: Aug 18, 2020

Posts: 126
Posted: May 17, 2013 - 12:20 PM

1. How much sailing time do you have?

Buying a boat that is too much to handle can limit the time you will spend on the water and how much you actually enjoy that time

2. Where will you be sailing?

Be realistic - We all see the movies or pictures of a boat in idyllic places and think 'That would be Sooo Kewl' but if you live in the middle of Kansas and only have a 500 acre lake to sail on how much boat do you really need?

3. How far are you from the area you will be sailing?

I'm pretty lucky I can close my shop and be on the lake in about 15 minutes. Some people have HOURS to travel just to get to a good body of water

4. Do you have a place to keep a boat, either wet dry or both?

5. If lake sailing does the boat you are looking at have a trailer?

It does not make much sense to buy a trailerable boat with out one - many lakes are flood control and it will mean that you must remove the boat from the water when there is not going to be any water in the lake. A good trailer also means that your boat can take you to places to enjoy that are more than a daysail away.

6. How much boat can your current vehicle handle?

If you are looking at a trailer sailor do you already have a good tow vehicle or is this purchase going to make you buy another vehicle just to drag the boat

7. Do you know the place you will be sailing - places to go, water depth, boat ramp locations and places to avoid?

Local knowledge is a great thing. It makes the day much more enjoyable not worrying about hitting a bunch of submerged rocks or that pesky reef that has only been there for the last 2000 years or so

8. Have you looked into a yacht club - either local or in the area you plan to sail?

This is a great way to meet sailors and check out various boats. You may even get to hitch a ride on a few to see which one or ones you like.

9. What boats are popular in your area ?

Having a fleet of similar boats does a few things 1) It allows you to judge your improvement against a boat that is the same as yours so that the difference is mostly the skipper (of course there are other things but you get the idea) 2) Popular boats will hold their value better so when you get ready to upgrade it will be easier to sell

Thats the list - give it some thought and dont get all starry eyed looking at a Formosa 41 until you have some sailing time under your belt

--
Lee - On the BIG Lake in MS

Harstil Kaulua 31 - Current Project Boat
Cal 25 - What ? Time to freshen it up again??
MC Scow 16 (1 in the water and 1 parts/project) SOLD
Capri 22 - What do you mean you wont deliver it??
Chrysler Pirateer 13 - new addition to the fleet
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nhanson

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Jul 06, 2008

Last visit: Mar 23, 2016

Posts: 94
Posted: May 17, 2013 - 01:02 PM

Okay .... my whole company just went thru Myers/Briggs http://www.personalitypat….com/type_inventory.html. Basically your personality gets scaled on 4 axis. Each axis has a pair of opposing characteristics.
Extroverted ---------------- Introverted
Sensing ---------------- Intuitive
Thinking ---------------- Feeling
Judging ---------------- Perceiving
Then you are labeled and HR judges you based on the results, and instructs management to pigeonhole your career path. Thus lowering your potential at work while maximizing stock price and profits. It's a fantastic exercise.

We just need to do the same for peoples sailing characteristic and map this to boats. Here is a purposed set of axi...
Cheap Ass ----------------- I Use Hundred Dollar Bills to Wipe My Ass
Sail w/Family ----------------- No Family
My friends call me Slim ----------------- My Friends Call me Biscuit
Pitchpoling Scares Me ----------------- I wish I could Pitchpole more

For example I would be a CNBP. I have added this to my .sig so you can all flame my posts with a tone that I will appreciate better.

I suggest we call this call this your Linkous/Hanson(tm) Catamaran Personality. I will be happy to fly out to your beach/sail club and administer the test, training, give out notebooks and certificates for a $20K fee.

--Norm

Edited by nhanson on May 17, 2013 - 02:08 PM.

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nacra inter-18
CNBP
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nhanson

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Jul 06, 2008

Last visit: Mar 23, 2016

Posts: 94
Posted: May 17, 2013 - 01:34 PM

Some mappings ....

CNBP .... nacra 5.8, Inter-18, H-18, Late model Nacra 20, SC 20, nacra 6.0
CNLP .... 80's H-16, nacra 5.0, nacra 5.2
CFLP .... 80's H-16, Used Getaway, Used Wave, H-17
HFLP .... New H-16, New Getaway, New Wave
HFBP .... ARC 22
HNBP .... Malstrom 20, Nacra Carbon 20
HNLP .... nacra F-16, F-17, New Race Pimped H-16
CFBP .... H20

Edited by nhanson on May 17, 2013 - 02:39 PM.

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nacra inter-18
CNBP
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captedteach

Rank: Mate

Registered: Jul 16, 2002

Last visit: Aug 18, 2020

Posts: 126
Posted: May 17, 2013 - 01:47 PM

Hmmmm - both of the last items use P to indicate that trait Might be a bit confusing............

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Lee - On the BIG Lake in MS

Harstil Kaulua 31 - Current Project Boat
Cal 25 - What ? Time to freshen it up again??
MC Scow 16 (1 in the water and 1 parts/project) SOLD
Capri 22 - What do you mean you wont deliver it??
Chrysler Pirateer 13 - new addition to the fleet
--
captedteach

Rank: Mate

Registered: Jul 16, 2002

Last visit: Aug 18, 2020

Posts: 126
Posted: May 17, 2013 - 01:49 PM

Maybe change one to S for SCARED of the P-word

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Lee - On the BIG Lake in MS

Harstil Kaulua 31 - Current Project Boat
Cal 25 - What ? Time to freshen it up again??
MC Scow 16 (1 in the water and 1 parts/project) SOLD
Capri 22 - What do you mean you wont deliver it??
Chrysler Pirateer 13 - new addition to the fleet
--
nhanson

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Jul 06, 2008

Last visit: Mar 23, 2016

Posts: 94
Posted: May 17, 2013 - 02:14 PM

Apparently you guys don't sail catamarans. They all pitchpole.

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nacra inter-18
CNBP
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mryella

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Sep 01, 2012

Last visit: Dec 10, 2013

Posts: 54
Posted: May 17, 2013 - 03:06 PM

availability of parts is definitely something that should be considered when looking at a cat

--
Nacra 5.7
Falcon Lake Manitoba
Canada
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DamonLinkous

Rank: Administrator

Registered: Jul 19, 2001

Last visit: Oct 31, 2024

Posts: 3445
Posted: May 17, 2013 - 04:07 PM

nhansonOkay .... my whole company just went thru Myers/Briggs http://www.personalitypat….com/type_inventory.html. Basically your personality gets scaled on 4 axis. Each axis has a pair of opposing characteristics.
Extroverted ---------------- Introverted
Sensing ---------------- Intuitive
Thinking ---------------- Feeling
Judging ---------------- Perceiving

You are cracking me up, love it. Your system reminds me of the calculations the engineer members used to produce in the early days of the hobielist mail list.

Remember one classic mathmatical formula white paper titled the "Butt Cheek Differential", have to see if I can find it.

--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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DamonLinkous

Rank: Administrator

Registered: Jul 19, 2001

Last visit: Oct 31, 2024

Posts: 3445
Posted: May 17, 2013 - 04:10 PM

Oh, here it is, forgot I had given it it's own page.
http://www.thebeachcats.com/files/Butt-Cheeks/

That's the kind of intellectual humor we used to have, what's up with the rest of you slackers?

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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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