Lee helm on Nacra 5.0 :: Catamaran Sailboats at TheBeachcats.com

Lee helm on Nacra 5.0

windadict

Rank: Mate

Registered: Aug 27, 2011

Last visit: Jun 15, 2015

Posts: 153
Posted: Jun 15, 2013 - 01:09 PM

Finally I got my boat wet last weekend for the first time this season. It was fun but I spent my time mostly on filling the boat and making needed adjustments.
First, the most important item I discovered is lee helm problem. When I let go the tiller, the boat starts to fall off. Not much but it does. Overall I don’t feel any pressure on rudders and boat responds quickly to any steering changes. Noted that was more difficult to tack but I am not sure if that is related to lee helm.
The adjustment screws in the rudder castings are all the way out (already flush with outside castings) preventing rudders to be moved further aft. The screw is about 1” long, should it be longer?
The forestay is on to the last hole of ten pin adjuster bracket and making bigger mast rake with out adding some sort of extension not possible.
Since these are skeg hulls and I sailed solo, may I be sitting too far aft?
Do you have any suggestions?

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Adam Bartos
Nacra 5.0
SolCat 18 (sold)
Lake Zurich, IL
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matt922

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Registered: Apr 15, 2011

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Posts: 287
Posted: Jun 15, 2013 - 01:49 PM

not a very scientific mode of determining mast rake, but i noticed the same.
coastrat

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Posted: Jun 15, 2013 - 02:41 PM

the more you rake the mast back, the more you want to put the rudders under the hulls(foreward)d vica versa. mayby try the mast in the middle spot with the rudders in the middle then tweek to your preference.

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bill harris
hattiesburg, mississippi
prindle 16- "BLUE RIBBON"
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windadict

Rank: Mate

Registered: Aug 27, 2011

Last visit: Jun 15, 2015

Posts: 153
Posted: Jun 15, 2013 - 04:08 PM

coastratthe more you rake the mast back, the more you want to put the rudders under the hulls(foreward)d vica versa. mayby try the mast in the middle spot with the rudders in the middle then tweek to your preference.

I am out of screw adjustment for rudders, I can only move them under (forward), so I guess I need to extend the forestay and rake mast little more?

--
Adam Bartos
Nacra 5.0
SolCat 18 (sold)
Lake Zurich, IL
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coastrat

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Registered: Jul 16, 2009

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Posted: Jun 15, 2013 - 07:41 PM

Quote I can only move them under (forward),

that's what i'm talking about.. move them foreward and see what that does. unless you have a forestay from another boat, there should be a sweet spot in there somewhere.

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bill harris
hattiesburg, mississippi
prindle 16- "BLUE RIBBON"
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scotts1w

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Registered: May 26, 2011

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Posts: 81
Posted: Jun 15, 2013 - 09:48 PM

Is the bias preference slight windward helm..... so the boat automatically rounds up if the tiller is dropped? Slight, so you are not fighting the helm and applying brakes all the time? Guess I need to read up on "tuning for dummies".

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Mooched Beachcats in the past
Time to try ownership with Nacra 5.7
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windadict

Rank: Mate

Registered: Aug 27, 2011

Last visit: Jun 15, 2015

Posts: 153
Posted: Jun 17, 2013 - 05:00 PM

matt922not a very scientific mode of determining mast rake, but i noticed the same.

The mast rake on my boat is very close to yours. DO you also have adjusting screws flush with the outside of castings?

--
Adam Bartos
Nacra 5.0
SolCat 18 (sold)
Lake Zurich, IL
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DamonLinkous

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Posted: Jun 17, 2013 - 05:05 PM

scotts1wIs the bias preference slight windward helm..... so the boat automatically rounds up if the tiller is dropped? Slight, so you are not fighting the helm and applying brakes all the time? Guess I need to read up on "tuning for dummies".

Here you go.

If you can read and digest the information in this article you will have it nailed and be considered a guru of helm.

Articles: What's All This About Weather Helm?

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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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windadict

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Registered: Aug 27, 2011

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Posts: 153
Posted: Jun 17, 2013 - 05:24 PM

coastrat
Quote I can only move them under (forward),

that's what i'm talking about.. move them foreward and see what that does. unless you have a forestay from another boat, there should be a sweet spot in there somewhere.

Hmm, I thought that to correct lee helm one should move rudders aft and bigger the rake, the better pointing ability.

I would like to keep that rake as I don't think is excessive. Next time I am on the water I will play with the rudders little bit and will see how the boat sails. I already marked pulling ropes to give good indication how rudders are positioned.

--
Adam Bartos
Nacra 5.0
SolCat 18 (sold)
Lake Zurich, IL
--
mryella

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Sep 01, 2012

Last visit: Dec 10, 2013

Posts: 54
Posted: Jun 18, 2013 - 12:17 PM

DamonLinkous
scotts1wIs the bias preference slight windward helm..... so the boat automatically rounds up if the tiller is dropped? Slight, so you are not fighting the helm and applying brakes all the time? Guess I need to read up on "tuning for dummies".

Here you go.

If you can read and digest the information in this article you will have it nailed and be considered a guru of helm.

Articles: What's All This About Weather Helm?

Wow what an awesome article. I now understand helm and "tiller tug" haha definitely worth a read.

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Nacra 5.7
Falcon Lake Manitoba
Canada
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windadict

Rank: Mate

Registered: Aug 27, 2011

Last visit: Jun 15, 2015

Posts: 153
Posted: Jun 19, 2013 - 08:27 PM

DamonLinkous
scotts1wIs the bias preference slight windward helm..... so the boat automatically rounds up if the tiller is dropped? Slight, so you are not fighting the helm and applying brakes all the time? Guess I need to read up on "tuning for dummies".

Here you go.

If you can read and digest the information in this article you will have it nailed and be considered a guru of helm.

Articles: What's All This About Weather Helm?

Thanks Damon, that is good reading with lots of info.

"Mast rake increases weather helm which increases tiller tug and resultant drag..."

Based on this, I am planning on adding 5 hole plate to the forestay to increse the rake and if that will result in tiller tug, i will move rudders forward. The increased rake should decrease lee helm.
Am I right or missing something?

--
Adam Bartos
Nacra 5.0
SolCat 18 (sold)
Lake Zurich, IL
--
DamonLinkous

Rank: Administrator

Registered: Jul 19, 2001

Last visit: Oct 31, 2024

Posts: 3445
Posted: Jun 19, 2013 - 09:33 PM

windadict
"Mast rake increases weather helm which increases tiller tug and resultant drag..."

Based on this, I am planning on adding 5 hole plate to the forestay to increse the rake and if that will result in tiller tug, i will move rudders forward. The increased rake should decrease lee helm.
Am I right or missing something?

Sounds good, just make sure you only adjust one thing at a time between test sails.

--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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azcat

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Posted: Jun 20, 2013 - 07:48 PM

I have a 5.0 also, and have lee helm. Its a little freaky at times. in over 7-8 mph winds, my shoulder gets a bit tired from pushing on the tiller. Really sucks when the hotstick cam lets loose upwind and the boat rounds down to a beamer, right now. Seems like the main beam could have been moved back a bit to balance the boat better. I guess the fix might be to throw on a nice mylar squaretop main, self tacker, and a smaller jib. So much for my little cheap single hander! Its a fun little boat.
Edchris177

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Registered: Nov 26, 2009

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Posted: Jun 21, 2013 - 06:27 AM

QuoteIts a little freaky at times.

As you know it gets even freakier in stronger winds. Pulling on the tiller keeps you attached to the boat, pushing on it removes you from the boat.
Does it occur on only 1 tack, or both? If it is both, it CAN be solved with rudder & mast adjustment. If it is only 1, it can be a number of things. Unequal shrouds, causing the mast to lean, bent beam, boat not "square", or diamond wires at different tensions. If non of that solves the problem, there is still an easy fix. Adjust the one rudder to trail further out. Before I figured out lee helm on port tack of my 5.7, I compensated by cleating the rudder pull down line an inch from where it "bottomed". I would pull the rudder down til it hit the stop, then let out 1" of line, then lock it in the cleat.
It totally got rid of lee helm, & the trailing rudder was not an issue, as on the other tack it was mostly clear of the water.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
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azcat

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Registered: Mar 21, 2006

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Posts: 88
Posted: Jul 17, 2013 - 11:26 PM

Yea, both tacs, sounds like its prevailant on the 5.0. I haven't been able to take the mast back much yet. Next time out I will. Might be best to add a self Tacker and a square top main. That may solve all of my problems.
MN3

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Registered: Jun 20, 2006

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Posted: Jul 18, 2013 - 06:34 AM

YES
QuoteIs the bias preference slight windward helm..... so the boat automatically rounds up if the tiller is dropped?

couple things to keep in mind
raking the mast forward typically powers you up and increases healing action
conversely raking the mast back decreases healing action

when you think your rudders are out of alignment ... work on 1 rudder at a time (like what damon said above ... adjust one variable at a time)