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-PG
'95 Nacra 5.8NA , rule#2
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halyard ring lock solution....so far anyway.
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Posted: Jul 01, 2013 - 08:19 PM
I have made up a simple solution to solve the annoying-ness of having the halyard ring hangup on most occasions forcing me to put my nacra 5.8na on her side to lower my main. This solution cost me $7.00 and tying one buntline and 2 bowlines. the $7.00 was for a cheap 50ft length of 1/8" line. The buntline was a change from using a bowline for connecting the halyard to the halyard ring (I think it might be more compact a knot). The 2 bowlines is where it gets tricky, tie the first on the large fat part of the ring leaving enough extra line on the short end to tie another. Then tie a second to the small "D" ring that the halyard is tied, but be sure (and this is critical) to tie this bowline so the first ends up at either the 3 o'clock or 9 o'clock position on the ring when all is tight. Now when I drop my main, i give a light pull on my halyard, and a quick tug of this new line at nearly the same time, and I have not had to tip my boat over to drop my main since! Which side it is tied off to will matter and you'll need to let the main go towards the opposite side (if line is connected to port side of ring when connected to the main, let the main be on the starbord side of the boat).
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-PG
'95 Nacra 5.8NA , rule#2
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Posted: Jul 02, 2013 - 06:33 AM
Oh dear! Another solution to a non-problem. Put your halyard through the little ring at the top and tie a stopper knot. Make sure you don't have the flipper on the hook on the mast. If it were me I'd want to have the shackle welded or taped to the ring because stuff gets dropped in the water, leading to blasphemy. To get the main down point the boat into the wind, raise the main slightly, rotate the sail/boom away from the hook. Let the sail slide down.
That wasn't so hard was it? The tricks are: open hook, boat into wind.
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Posted: Jul 02, 2013 - 09:44 AM
Thanks BigWhoop, saved me some typing.
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Philip
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Posted: Jul 02, 2013 - 10:07 AM
+2
This gets difficult most times b/c of a stretchy halyard or sheaves that are worn. Sometimes new sails are so stiff that turning them away from the hook is difficult, but you just gotta suck it up w/ your fancy new rags and pull harder.
Past that I think I've seen one time where the hook was actually bent a bit, and the rest is just technique.
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Rob
OKC
Pile of Nacra parts..
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Posted: Jul 02, 2013 - 10:16 AM
Couple things to note.
It is a problem, as there are plenty of posts about it across all models that use hooks. And Hobie altered their ring (aussie style) and Murray's makes a similar unit as well.
stopper knot is a no-go, already tried that, the opening in the "D" section of my ring is a about a 1/2" opening, using a 3/16" halyard, I would have to tie a decent size monkey fist there to ensure it would not slip through the opening.
And the biggest thing.......turning into the wind, no all of us are lucky to launch from a beach or other ideal situation. I am currently limited to a seawall, so I can only go one direction in, and one direction out.
I replaced the sheave and the halyard is the lowest stretch I could get my hands on. Just did't want to spend more cash on a different ring and gave a piece of $7.00 rope a try and it has been 100% easy success since. Literally one tug of both while standing at the stern, and she drops with ease.
Knock it if you guys want, but this works pretty damn good. I was just posting in hopes of helping someone else out.
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-PG
'95 Nacra 5.8NA , rule#2
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Posted: Jul 02, 2013 - 12:10 PM
Yeah, my first thought when I saw your picture was that you need a different ring, one of the ones with the twist shackle welded to the ring and small halyard attachment hole.
But if your solution fits your sailing then it's great you figured a way that fits your boat and budget. Having to launch a beachcat without a beach means you have to invent some solutions because the boats were not designed to be rigged from a dock or while floating.
Don't let the responses bother you, they were correct for 99% of situations but obviously not yours.
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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN
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Posted: Jul 02, 2013 - 02:39 PM
PG, you took it all wrong. The experienced voices weren't necessarily knocking you, just responding by stating that there's a different path. If your second line works for you than go for it. I applaud you for your creative endeavor as a work around, and I'm glad it works for you, but this might give the impression to the noobie that it is a fix to a non-fixable problem, where as I believe that the proper technique and equipment is the proper educational path to execute. Your OP of a "solution to solve" is painting the picture with a rather broad stroke. This thread will provide much insight to many, just as the hundreds before.
Stopper knots are doable. I've done it with 1/8" Dyneema single braid for an entire season with no issues. There are many ways to tie to the aussie ring, but the important thing is to have the line exit from the inside while on the hook. 3/16" is pretty much what most people use and it is easy to tie up. Failure to tie a knot is not an excuse to fail.
Turning into the wind. If you can raise the sail off the hook (off the wind, i.e. at the seawall), then you can lower the sail. The second line does nothing to raise the sail. The technique of into the wind allows less pressure/friction on the luff bolt rope, and allows you to rotate the mast. If your at the seawall with a side wind, just rotate the luff toward the wind. The proper technique is doable, even when on the seawall, which I have done hundreds of times on the 5.8 single handed.
Sheaves and low stretch halyards. They help make it easier to get the ring off the hook, but you can still get it off the hook with stretchy line, so that is not an excuse.
By pulling from the stern of the boat, your second line basically pulls the ring away from the mast and off the hook. Your system is creative and effective, but so is a trunk monkey sitting on top of the mast.
Other things you should do that help:
Don't use a halyard too big, it will not have enough room inside the sail track, and will rub against the sail.
Make sure the hook is centered in alignment with slot.
Clean the sail slot.
Clean the luff bolt rope. Spray it with sail spray or silicone.
Make sure there are no pinches, nicks or narrow spots in the slot.
A welded shackle is always helpful.
As BigWhoop said, raise the ring a little (as in half the ring's diameter), no more.
Like I said, if it works for you than bravo. So much for saving keystrokes and I apologize if I sound too much like EdChris.
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Philip
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Posted: Jul 02, 2013 - 06:38 PM
No offense taken.
Not a rookie, not a racer either, just looking for some good puffs. That picture (aside from the 1/8" line), is exactly as it would have been originally delivered and set up. That is the OE ring and twist shackle, and the 3/16" line is factory spec for main halyard. Your choice of knot is required though, per the manual, they just don't say what knot to tie (I currently prefer the buntline).
I read many of the posts with the same issue and I did everything from scrubbing and mclubing the sh*t out of the bolt rope, lightly used 600 grit paper in the mast slot (was cherry, but did it anyway), replaced the sheave, replaced the halyard to a low stretch and to the correct diameter. I was 5 for 5 with failure to take the main down on my first 5 days this year, after all that. And after also replacing the traveler car for the main, nearly over budget already for the season.
I had some rigging issues when I first got this boat and learned through Murray's that 5.8na and 6.0na had some "repeat-ability" issues with where the mast hound and the hook were riveted to the mast. Unlike a hobie, they won't just send you pre-made shrouds and forestay; for those 2 boats they require that you give them dimensions and they will make them to order because of so much variation. I wonder if there is a particular spec for the distance from the sheave to the hook? And is that distance critical to ease or difficulty? I only question this because there are a lot of people who still have issues in perfect conditions.
I had a hobie 16 and they are notorious for being a pain to drop the main, that boat was a walk in the park compared to what I was dealing with. I understand the physics, the motion, all the forces involved, no matter how I would rotate the mast, if wind was in my favor, no matter how much the halyard was pulled (lifting the ring a little or a lot), I could not get it disengaged.
In frustration is how I came up with that idea, I know it is not a glamorous solution, and whoever made the mention of weight.....c'mon, its 40 foot of 1/8" line (after I cut it), can't weigh more than a pound MAX (few ounces is my guess). I am 6'3" and 230 pounds, If I need to be concerned about weight on the boat, my rigging is not what needs to lose weight!
As far as my on/off the water situation goes, picture below. I am in a very busy marina in a tight nook of a bay, and can't hang out long in the water off the wall. there is a 2 foot drop to the water from the wall, and there is 3.5-4 feet of water right off the wall. enough to stand in easy and reign in the boat, but it is aweful lake mush, and impossible to do much without sinking up to your knees in the muck. As far as tying up to the near wall, not happening, no wake zone is close and powerboats make nasty wake wash that slams the wall, not fun to be tied up there at all (already got some damage this year), so it is best to be ready and move quick.
The only other issue is I am usually solo, so i made some roller ramps for the hulls and hobbled together a 5-1 come-along from spare bits (and used my old halyard) to pull it up and out of the water. I can show up and be on the water in less than 10 min, and have the boat up the ramps on the bunks the dirt in about the same time, but has taken hours to get the frickin main down!!!!!!
and I apologize for the keystrokes too. And I bet a five that at least a few people that read this post are going to try that extra line. It works like a charm, I swear.
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-PG
'95 Nacra 5.8NA , rule#2
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Posted: Jul 02, 2013 - 08:29 PM
OK so where do I get one of those trunk monkeys?
http://owners.aquarius-sail.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=170&hilit=masthead+hook&start=15
Check this thread. GH
Edited by gahamby on Jul 02, 2013 - 08:33 PM.
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'82 Super Cat 15
Hull #315
Virginia
Previously owned: '70 H14, '79 H16, '68 Sailmaster 26, '85 H14T
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Posted: Jul 02, 2013 - 10:14 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8oPVVGYQ40
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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN
How To Create Your Signature
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Posted: Jul 03, 2013 - 05:56 AM
How is that monkey on the wire? If he can hand ,reef, and steer, he's got the gig.
It looks like he's well on his way to hijacking this thread.
Would slacking the shrouds so as to take any rake out of the mast help? I had a tough time with my Aussie ring just recently.It was made worse when the bolt rope popped out above the gate. We had to pull on the down haul something fierce to get the sail back in the track and then were able to get it down
Edited by gahamby on Jul 03, 2013 - 06:06 AM.
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'82 Super Cat 15
Hull #315
Virginia
Previously owned: '70 H14, '79 H16, '68 Sailmaster 26, '85 H14T
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Posted: Jul 03, 2013 - 12:26 PM
Did you ever try it with a regular shackle(not a twist)? I had the same problem before I replaced the twist shackle with a wide "D" shackle. The wide "D" shackle will allow the ring to rotate enought to hook and not so much that you cannot get the saill down. You have to play with the correct direction for the ring to be facing to hook properly. But once you get it that correct it works like a charm. -
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Posted: Jul 07, 2013 - 02:47 PM
Next season I may spend some bucks on the Murray's ring. But after another 3 days on the water, and no messing around to drop the main at the end of each day on the water, I don't think I need to spend the money on anything else. This really works well, light weight and doesn't tangle, and no messing with the rig (rotating the mast just so, have the bows up, have the bow down, be in the wind, stand on one foot and rub your belly, etc.). I even took it down one day with a 10mph breeze riding up the stern with this simple $7.00 addition.
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-PG
'95 Nacra 5.8NA , rule#2
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Posted: Jul 09, 2013 - 08:50 AM
Ive been running that setup on my 5.2 for a couple if years. I always try ang get the sail down the 'proper way'. But every so often the ring just doesnt want to cooperate. I just tie the and of my halyard to the side if the ring and make sure it is secured to the mast to keep it from flying all over. More that 2 ways to skin a cat.
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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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