Rudder setting maxed out but rake not acceptable :: Catamaran Sailboats at TheBeachcats.com

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Rudder setting maxed out but rake not acceptable

yelkenli1

Rank: Mate

Registered: May 31, 2011

Last visit: Dec 17, 2023

Posts: 126
Posted: Jul 10, 2013 - 05:46 PM

I might know the answer to this question but let me know your thoughts. I have an 07 H16, which used to be in a rental fleet, so not sure of the age of any of the parts. I noticed the port and starboard tacks do not have the same weather helm. Looking at the pictures of the rudders, there are clear differences.

When rudders are locked down, the port upper rudder casting sits well above the lower casting (I can see through the gap). In contrast, the starboard upper casting sits nice and flush to the lower casting. Both rudders do lock down though.

Starboard

Port

Also, the starboard rudder has more rake. it is 1 inch away from the hull, compared to the port rudder that has 1.5 inch gap. I have the cam stop plate on the port side all the way forward (max rake). The starboard is in the middle (not at max).

Starboard

Port

Port cam stop plate setting

Starboard

Port

Also, I noticed the following:
- The bolt holes in the two rudders are not in the exact same location.
- The lower castings do not have the same finish (i.e. they do not look exactly alike, though seem to have the same overall shape/dimensions)

Question is if the rudder hole position difference is the cause of the rake difference, or is there a difference between the port and starboard lower castings (not sure the pictures show enough to tell).

note:
You can see the rework on the port lower casting where the cam sister screws are set. I had to refill one of the screw holes with aluminum and redrill. I think I got close to the correct location, and do not think that is the cause of the rake difference. But I am not sure how much an error here would impact rake.

Thanks,

--
Ted
Hobie 16
South Carolina Lake sailing
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DamonLinkous

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Posted: Jul 10, 2013 - 06:46 PM

yelkenli1I might know the answer to this question but let me know your thoughts. I have an 07 H16, which used to be in a rental fleet, so not sure of the age of any of the parts. I noticed the port and starboard tacks do not have the same weather helm. Looking at the pictures of the rudders, there are clear differences.

Ted, I know you will get some input on your rudders. This is an excellent example of how to ask a question giving the information and pictures needed to see the problem. Good Job.

Only one thing, it appeared that when you got the image url's from your album that you used the thumbnails instead of the larger size pictures. That caused the previews here on the thread to be blurry because they were actually enlargements of smaller thumbnails instead of reductions of the larger pictures, if that makes any sense.

I've edited your post to include the larger pictures.

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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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beachsailor

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Registered: Jul 14, 2004

Last visit: Jan 21, 2015

Posts: 84
Posted: Jul 11, 2013 - 06:36 AM

Fill and redrill the holes(you may only have to do one rudder). Find someone knowledgeable with a H16 to get the correct hole location.
the-renovator

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Registered: Sep 29, 2012

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Posted: Jul 11, 2013 - 07:32 AM

I remember reading somewhere that Hobie has a template available, it has the H16 bolt hole locations, I'm not sure if it it a paper template but how else would they be able to ship it. Otherwise you would have to make your own template by finding another H16 owner with original rudders and tracing a template off that to compare with yours. From your excellent description though, it does sound like the bolt holes are incorrect.
DamonLinkous

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Posted: Jul 11, 2013 - 09:34 AM

the-renovatorI remember reading somewhere that Hobie has a template available, it has the H16 bolt hole locations, I'm not sure if it it a paper template but how else would they be able to ship it.

The template and drilling instructions are available as a PDF in the support section of the Hobiecat.com site.

http://static.hobiecat.co…l_assets/rudderdrill.pdf

There are dimensions printed on the template to make sure it is to scale. When I printed it just now the dimension that should be 9.375 " (9 3/8 inches) measured out to 9 1/8 ", but then I remembered that the default print setting is "fit to paper". Changing that to print actual size made the dimensions match within 1/64".

Use the template to find out if your blades are drilled for the kind of castings you have. There are different hole locations for adjustable and non-adjustable castings.

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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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HULLFLYER

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Posted: Jul 11, 2013 - 11:59 AM

Hobie 16 rudders have 2 different hole locations. One for non adjustable upper castings, and a slightly different one for adjustable upper castings. It sounds like you have one of each on your boat, if a rudder was replaced this could easily happen. I have the medal template which I purchaed from my local Hobie dealer and it has all the locations for the different Hobies. Very glad I purchased it. Just a hint, when I have to fill a hole to redrill (as the holes are very close) I use a fiberglass rudder pin to fill the old hole. Drive it in cut of flush, works great.
yelkenli1

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Posted: Jul 11, 2013 - 07:35 PM

Thanks all for the replies and links. I will take these off and fill and redrill. That has to be the problem. If not, the second candidate is the port lower casting as that has a different finish and has already required one repair job.

Hullflyer, are these rudder pins what hold the lower casting to the hull gudgeons? My pins look to be some type of metal (technical term learned at summer camp a al 'some kind of meat')

I understand the job would be to dope these up with resin/epoxy, press them in, and let them set. Then mark the new hole location and re-drill? Any recommendations on drill bit type or technique?

Thanks,

--
Ted
Hobie 16
South Carolina Lake sailing
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PurdueZach

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Posted: Jul 11, 2013 - 07:45 PM

Do the best you can to keep the epoxy from spilling out of the hole. When I did this once the epoxy came out and the puddle dried into a sanding nightmare.

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-Zach
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the-renovator

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Posted: Jul 11, 2013 - 10:05 PM

Mike, there are 3 types of rudder pins, SS, aluminum and fiberglass, just get/order/buy/steal a fiberglass pin and use that to plug the hole. Then use epoxy to finish off if necessary....
DamonLinkous

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Posted: Jul 11, 2013 - 10:14 PM

the-renovatorMike, there are 3 types of rudder pins, SS, aluminum and fiberglass, just get/order/buy/steal a fiberglass pin and use that to plug the hole. Then use epoxy to finish off if necessary....

But don't be tempted to use a fiberglass rudder pins as .... rudder pins.

If you do you could be sailing along, hit an obstruction with both rudders, have both pins break off, have the force of the water pull the tiller out of your hand, and lose your entire rudder system and tiller stick to the deep blue. Could happen.

--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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beachsailor

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Posted: Jul 12, 2013 - 08:03 AM

Easy way to fill holes. Tape a piece of wax paper(dust tape work well) over the hole on one side. Lay on flat surface and fill. Epoxy and micro ballons.
DamonLinkous

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Posted: Jul 12, 2013 - 09:37 AM

Question for everyone that has re-drilled a lot of different rudder blades.

Does it matter which material your blades are made out of? Can you always use the thickened epoxy whether the blades are basic plastic, lexan, fiberglass, or carbon?

This issue comes up a lot, it would be great to have a step by step technical help gallery about the process.

Scary to drill into rudders, when you buy brand new ones they don't come drilled so you have to drill into brand new blades.

When I was in High School I worked in a sporting goods store where we sold bowling balls, always stressed about drilling holes in a brand new ball.

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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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beachsailor

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Posted: Jul 12, 2013 - 02:25 PM

Measure twice(maybe three times), Drill once. I recommed a drill press with the blades being level. Drill the hole out of square and you will be doing it again. (Don't ask me how I know.)

Edited by beachsailor on Jul 12, 2013 - 02:27 PM.
captedteach

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Posted: Jul 13, 2013 - 05:35 PM

Yeah Damon you can always 'fix' the holes On the Lexan blades there is really no need as the blade is solid UNLESS the new hole needs to share the space of the old hole

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Lee - On the BIG Lake in MS

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