Every transaction I have entered into with members of this forum has been positive until now. I recently purchased a Hobie 18 furler from the above individual.
I specifically asked him about the condition of the unit. His reply, quoted directly from his email;
"The furlers are in great shape if you want to call me tomorrow I would be happy to talk to you."
He would not accept a US$ check, or Pay Pal, even though I said it would be fine to defer shipping til the check cleared. He wanted cash or money order.
In addition, despite asking that he send the item US Postal Service, he dropped it off, at UPS, COD, resulting in a $50 charge at my end.
Upon receiving the item, I noticed it didn't turn freely, & made some noise. I opened up the drum to find the following.
Not only were nearly all the bearings pitted, but those at the 1 & 5 O'clock positions were not bearings at all, merely globs of corrosion. The cage & 1 race were also unserviceable. No wonder it didn't turn freely.
I contacted the above individual numerous times, to enact a resolution, giving a week between contacts in case he was away or working hard. I asked him to contact me via this forum. I know his internet is working as he is still posting.
In hindsight, his insistence of cash, & his continued refusal to even reply to my concerns leads me to believe he knew the item was in poor condition, & his intent was to pull a fast one.
The $ value will not make or break me, I offer this information as a caution to anyone else who runs across his ads & might be tempted to purchase from him. Unlike the majority of vendors here, he will "grab your cash, then hide, like a frightened animal.
USE CAUTION WHEN DEALING WITH "HULLFLYER"
-- Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap --
Not always, there can be any number of reasons a seller wouldn't want to take those two forms of payment. A USPS money order is about the only thing that's bank will accept as cash. My bank treats all other MOs, bank checks and cashiers checks just like normal checks. Often the hassle of waiting on a check to clear is not worthwhile for low value items. PayPal has all sorts of its own problems.
I'm not defending anyone, just pointing out that I am not alarmed by those conditions.
-- Greenville SC
Offering sails and other go fast parts for A-class catamarans --
just pointing out that I am not alarmed by those conditions.
in today's world & web .... I (personally) wouldn't do business with anyone i couldn't use pay pal, or a credit card with (or some other agreed resource) so I have some protections. I pay my designers, programmers, copywriters all via pay pal. they LOVE it that i pay them 10 minutes after i get an invoice. we have NEVER had an issue.
This is Edchris177 we are talking about. This guy has been an extremely active (and very "nice") user on this forum for years. Your not gonna accept a check and wait a few days for it to clear?... not worth what hassle? having a furler sit around for 1 more week?
I've deleted hullflyer's personal information from the first post until we hear his side of this. He has been a member and active here since 2004, seems only fair.
I've deleted hullflyer's personal information from the first post until we hear his side of this. He has been a member and active here since 2004, seems only fair.
Fair enough, for now.
I know he reads the forum, & I also asked him,(in reply to one of his posts from a couple of days ago) to please PM, email, or otherwise get in touch. As options I offered to return the item or requested compensation for parts to make it usable.
I also outlined very clearly to him the steps I would take, both here & CatSailor forum if his course of action was that of continued utter silence.
How could he have not received at least 1 of my inquiries? We exchanged quite a few emails regarding the sale, after he posted the items here under classifieds. He actually initiated the transaction by emailing to enquire if I was still interested.
"On 11/07/2013 9:00 AM, Elias Reynolds wrote:
> Still interested in furler
> EliasSent from my MetroPCS 4G Wireless Phone "
I replied that I was, & said I would buy it if it were in good condition. His response was that it "was in great shape".
As stated, in the great scheme of things, the $300 I ended up spending, ($150 for furler+$50 COD fee+$41 parts+shipping) will not make a ripple in my personal finances, but it might for others. Most importantly, it's the principle, I could have bought a brand new one for $275.
I even conveyed to him that perhaps the shipping via USPS was not quite clear,( though I find it hard to misconstrue, "when you drop it at the POST OFFICE, please mark the little green declaration sticker as "gift", otherwise our Gov't will impose taxes) & that though not thrilled, I would eat that cost, but felt he should man up & help me out with the rebuild parts.
If a guy needs $40 that badly to eat, I'd just give it to him.
In the world of E Commerce, the only thing you have is your reputation, hard to earn, easy to damage. I firmly believe that vendors should be given the chance to make things right, but if they don't, it's their reputation that will suffer.
If perchance this is all a mistake, & there is some valid reason for utter silence, I will post a full & humble apology, & send the guy a Grolcsh as a peace offering.
Until then, as they say, Caveat Emptor.
-- Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap --
MN3, I was simply pointing out some reasons a seller might not accept those payment methods. The buyer always has the option of not doing business with a seller for any reason.
-- Greenville SC
Offering sails and other go fast parts for A-class catamarans --
Shit happens. I've had an exact similar experience, when I purchased goods from a very well know member here, and what I lost far exceeds what your talking about. Shipping ran several hundred dollars. Well know member selling to a well know member. He represented it as one thing (excellent condition), I received it believing it was something else (totally worthless crap). Again same scenario. I took the high road. Today that member posts regularly, and sells items here often, and every time he sells something I shake my head. In retrospect, he still provides something positive to the community. He's probably laughing reading this.
Andrew experienced a personal problem with a real brick and mortar vendor. Completely different scenario when dealing with a store than a forum member. So . . .
I don't care how bad or crappy that furler is, the seller might have seen it as something else. His actions might be malevolent, maybe not. I'm not taking a side or defending anybody. But . . . .
It is mine and only my opinion that your actions are reckless and malicious, that you have overstepped the bounds of decency. To provide that member's name, and then his home address, and then even his phone number is gross misconduct. Don't really care how wrong the seller is, your dealings with him are private. If warranted a "full and humble apology" would be too late. Your intended damage is done. I hope you take the high road.
It would only be fair that Hullflyer provide us with your personal information, and I hope he does.
High road my A$$. I have no problem calling out someone that sells something then refuses to return communications when there is a problem. Happened to me with a boat. Fool me once, never again. We like to believe the best from our fellow sailors but it is not always the case.
I don't care how bad or crappy that furler is, the seller might have seen it as something else. His actions might be malevolent, maybe not. I'm not taking a side or defending anybody. But . . . .
This is a problem I see all of the time, people who are honestly very proud of their boat/parts or people who have parts that have sat around a decade and are less serviceable than originally thought.
I also have seen several instances of respectable people describe sails or boats very differently, sometimes this is the case of neutral parties, sometimes these lead to bad feelings between friends.
As a seller, I often trash parts or boats that are worth money to someone, but are too easily misunderstood. Things like this topic are not worth a $100 transaction.
-- Greenville SC
Offering sails and other go fast parts for A-class catamarans --
I don't care how bad or crappy that furler is, the seller might have seen it as something else. His actions might be malevolent, maybe not. I'm not taking a side or defending anybody. But . . . .
This is a problem I see all of the time, people who are honestly very proud of their boat/parts or people who have parts that have sat around a decade and are less serviceable than originally thought.
I also have seen several instances of respectable people describe sails or boats very differently, sometimes this is the case of neutral parties, sometimes these lead to bad feelings between friends.
You articulate the point I was making well. Kinda why my opening paragraph was made. I know that the seller I dealt with is someone I will meet some day and probably sail with, or even an evening at dinner while enjoying a beverage. No need for me to try to flame his a$$. If some of you folks here knew the details of our transaction, you would scream, holler, and throw all kinds of a rage. He saw ying in his product, I saw yang. Cost me some coin, but in the end nobody wins, so I chose the high road. Life's too short.
Posting the sellers personal information was in poor taste.
Fwiw this is hardly personal information. Everything except his street address can be found on this site. Street address can be found in 30 seconds with a Google search. Just saying.
-- Pete Knapp
Schodack landing,NY
Goodall Viper,AHPC Viper,Nacra I20 --
MN3, I was simply pointing out some reasons a seller might not accept those payment methods. The buyer always has the option of not doing business with a seller for any reason.
This is the exact reason I didn't do business with the same person a couple years ago. I figured if we couldn't agree on payment terms, there was no way the transaction would go smoothly.
Electronic payments are so much easier to deal with, as well as traceable, that I don't feel comfortable with anyone that wants something else, especially when it's clearly less convenient.