How is a wave different than a hobie 16 in the ocean?
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Posted: Aug 24, 2013 - 05:36 PM
Hey all, another question for you. I'm getting closer to getting my own cat and I've been sailing waves and 16s at my local sailing club. I like the wave because it's roomy, comfortable, and easy to rig. I like the speed of the 16. Much faster than the wave in light wind which is nice. The real decision maker is going to be how the boats ride in the ocean. I plan on doing a lot of ocean sailing and unfortunately I can't take the boats from the sailing club out of the bay. Will there big a big difference in how these two boats handle waves and chop? Is there a strong reason to get one over another based on ocean performance. Right now I'm leaning towards the wave as I value simplicity and comfort over speed. Your thoughts? -
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Posted: Aug 24, 2013 - 06:44 PM
The Hobie 16 has a well deserved reputation for pitchpoling in the waves more than any other catamaran. Not enough floatation up front. Ask other people who own and sail the H18 and they will tell you that they started on a 16 and moved up partially for that reason. There are lots of other things to balance into making your decision, but if you are going to sail in the ocean avoid the H16. In some of the long distance offshore races in California they do not allow cats less than 18 feet because of incidents that have happened with H16s.
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Bob
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Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
(Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
Arizona, USA
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Posted: Aug 24, 2013 - 07:33 PM
You already made the decision, you are just looking for others to corroborate.
I solo an N5.7 & 5.0, & have sailed a Wave on the ocean, out of Antigua.
They are no where near as fast as other cats, BUT, that is not your greatest need. They are easy, tough, & light.
In a decent wind they are also pretty quick. My wife & I had a hull in the air with both of us on the rear corner & a good blow.
Search the site here posts by "creative". He has video of 16mph on his Wave. I only get 21 on my 5.7, & that is much bigger, complex boat.
remember, you can buy a brand new Wave, tax in, here in Canada for 5K.
Buy the thing, sail the crap out of it. Two years from now trade up, or keep it if it fits the bill.
Edited by Edchris177 on Aug 24, 2013 - 07:34 PM.
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Posted: Aug 26, 2013 - 04:57 AM
I would look at the getaway instead of the 2 you mentioned. I think the wave is to small to deal with ocean waves. I have sailed waves at resorts and it is fun, but the getaway gives you more size and stability, while still being simple.
I sailed a H16 for years and loved it. It could use more hull volume, but it is a proven great boat that people have been sailing for decades in the ocean.
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Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
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Posted: Aug 26, 2013 - 07:14 AM
Our Club has a Wave, nice boat for the junior program, but I prefer the 16, pitchpole opportunities and all.
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Kenneth Purdy
Hobie 16
Nacra 5.2 (2)
Banshee
First Coast, Florida
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Posted: Aug 26, 2013 - 07:51 AM
Does H16 pitchpole because of lack of flotation or design of the forward entry? Just asking
Edited by golfdad75 on Aug 26, 2013 - 07:52 AM.
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Nacra 5.2
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Posted: Aug 26, 2013 - 08:31 AM
I believe it is the lack of flotation.
If you think about the forces. The further the hull goes under, the greater the tendency to go azz over teakettle.
You are moving forward quite quickly, as the hull goes under, it creates an angle relative to the flow of water, engineers would term it a "couple". The deeper it goes, the greater couple. This force wants keep the bow going deeper, the momentum of the boat cause it to rotate around the lateral axis. Weight forward increases rotation, rearward decreases rotation.
At the extreme angle,(hulls vertical) every bit of forward motion translates into the sterns passing the front, along with the fact that the mast is now horizontal in front of you.
The greater the buoyancy, the greater the resistance to the hull to going under, & if under the greater the tendency to come back up. Given enough buoyancy, it would be impossible to pitchpole. Everything is a compromise, unless you build a boat or aircraft for an extremely narrow set of conditions.
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Posted: Aug 26, 2013 - 07:24 PM
I would recommend the H16 over the wave. When I was young, my parents took me out off the SC coast and we sailed in swells and waves. I used to take friends out when I was a teenager, and our favorite was plowing through the waves over the sand bars. Plenty of flips and pitch poles, but not enough to be a nuisance or a significant danger. My message to you is that we figured out how to sail the Hobie 16 in the swells and waves and you can too.
Fast forward 25 years, I was in the Caribbean and rented a Hobie Wave. 20 knots of wind, and probably 1.5 to 2 meter swells. I had my 9 and 12 year olds on the boat. I was happy with the smaller sail and more bow buoyancy. However, this was a rental boat in a foreign land, and I did kept an eagle eye on that lee bow.
The alternative is something similar in speed to a Hobie 16 but with more bow. But I like the H16.
Regards,
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Ted
Hobie 16
South Carolina Lake sailing
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Posted: Aug 26, 2013 - 07:36 PM
Supercat 15 or 17
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Tim
Collierville (Memphis), TN
Supercat 15--sold :(
Hobie monocat--given
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Nacra 5.7
Hobie 14–sold to make room for...
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Posted: Aug 27, 2013 - 05:27 AM
I would try not to limit yourself to just those 2, but if that's the case I would go with the 16. If your new to the sport you will outgrow the wave pretty quick. I agree with the Getaway suggestion. -
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Posted: Aug 27, 2013 - 01:19 PM
If you want to slowly bob around in the ocean waves on a "stable" platform that was designed for resort rental by noobs, get the Wave. If you want to fly over them on a (albeit dated) boat designed to be sailed in the ocean, get the H16. Longer water line is better as waves increase. Sure, the H16 bows are not voluminous as compared to some designs, but, sheesh, at least it HAS bows.....unlike those tiny protrusions in front of the front beam of the Wave!
Edited by rattlenhum on Aug 28, 2013 - 11:29 AM.
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Jerome Vaughan
Hobie 16
Clinton, Mississippi
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Posted: Aug 28, 2013 - 06:08 AM
THe wave is boring and so is the getaway. If you want volume and stabliity and speed look at the Nacra 5.0 and descendants. The H16 however is a fine boat and you will enjoy it. You will be selling your wave or getaway within a year of purchase. -
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Posted: Aug 28, 2013 - 06:46 AM
That's not true for everybody. I would take a wave or a getaway over nothing.
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Rob Jones
1976 Yellow p-16 - parts is parts - hulls cut up
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1982 White NACRA 5.8 - project boat.
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1975 White Hobie 3.5 - PM me if you want it
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Posted: Aug 29, 2013 - 08:36 PM
So, why are you guys dissing my Hobie Wave??? I own a NACRA 5.7 a Hobie 16 and a Hobie Wave. Previously a 5.0 and a 5.2. ANYBODY and I mean ANYBODY can jump on an overpowered Hobie 16 or a 5.7 and make it go fast and think, WOW! that was some kind of ride! BUT...it takes a certain amount of skill to make a Wave perform to it's potential. One of the reasons I bought a Wave was the fun we've had sailing these beat-up "resort" boats in Jamaica. If you have any doubts about how much fun you can have on a Wave check out this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hq3cBj2zkSE Keep in mind this was in 10-15 mph winds on boats that have seen a lot of use. There have been many times I have been out SOLO in 30+ winds on my Wave when the 16's are beating a hasty retreat to shore! A Hobie Wave..boring??? Oh, Puleeze! -
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Posted: Mar 02, 2016 - 10:30 PM
Wow I own both a H16 and an upgraded Wave. I Cannot believe the naive responses about the wave. I take mine out in 25-35 knots solo. Have never had more fun and all of you other cat sailers are sitting on the beach sucking your thumbs in disbelief that I'm the only one with the balls to sail solo and handle it like a charm with a grin from ear to ear BLASTING around.. -
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Posted: Mar 03, 2016 - 12:05 AM
Wow that is digging one out of the archives to get outraged about!
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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Mar 03, 2016 - 01:25 PM
But since he did, I'll toss in my 2 cents (even though the OP has probably already bought a boat and drawn his own conclusion)...
The Wave is a fun boat, super easy to rig, lots of volume for it's size. For experienced sailors or those looking for excitement, it really only becomes exciting around 20 mph and higher windspeed. But in those conditions it is a lot of fun. Under 10 mph windspeed, it can be a bit of a bore, but then, not everyone is looking for roller coaster ride excitement every time they sail. The wave does well in ocean conditions, but is a bit low on power and doesn't have a jib, so launching into surf (especially if the wind is onshore) may be a bit of a challenge.
The H16 was born and bred in the California surf, sailed and raced in probably just about every ocean on the planet, used for the Worrell 1000 mile race up the Atlantic coast, etc., etc. These boats were purposefully designed for being launched into the surf and sailed in the ocean, so you're not really going to find a more capable beach cat in that regard.
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Posted: Mar 03, 2016 - 09:26 PM
The fact that you have rigged and sailed both, you have done all the homework you need. I really like the waves boomless rig, and sails well without a jib. It's lighter too if you are a beach launcher you'll appreciate that. Stuff you already know, just giving some affirmation.
FYI I am a die hard Hobie 16er -
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Posted: Mar 04, 2016 - 12:54 PM
The older I get, the more I like the Wave and the Getaway. If easy cat sailing is what you desire, get the Wave, if fast sailing is what you want, get a 16-17 ft. cat. Most cats this size were designed with more bouyancy up front than the Hobie 16 has. I always preferred the Prindle or the Nacra, but I am a heavier sailor.It should be stated though, I have been beaten often by Hobie 16's. They can be almost invincible with the right sailor on-board. We don't even want to talk about how much you have to beat a Hobie 14 by, to correct out over him.
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Peyton Adair
Prindle 18 classic
Hobie 17
Hobie Wave
Wichita KS
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Posted: Mar 04, 2016 - 05:17 PM
Since we're breathing life back into this thread: H16s pitch pole - no doubt about it, but they also stay upright with sensible sailing and quick reactions. I only ever pitch poled mine when I knew I was pushing the limit and doing it on purpose - the risk of getting ejected out the front is part of the thrill. I also sailed it three up in a force 5 with breaking surf hitting the sail up by the numbers and it was solid as a rock. We surfed that sucker, jumped waves and never got close to pitch poling. Put a foot strap on the hull behind the tramp post, get your weight back, get your crew back and let it rip. They only flip when you're burying the bow upwind and you know it's coming when the spray starts to fly off the leeward bow - plenty of time to simply head up a bit to spill wind or ease that main sheet.
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H16 back in the day
SC17 right now
Bradenton, FL
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